What is the standard price usually for a PPL(H)?
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PPL(H) Training - Confused
Hi,
Been looking at this and it says "You are required to undertake a minimum of 45 hours of training including 25 hours of dual control with your instructor, 10 hours of solo flying, 5 hours of instrument flying and 8 written exams."
So why dont the hours add up , 25 dual, 10 solo and 5 instrument are onlyh 35. Wheres the other 10?
Also , i have found a place that does R22 Dual training £215ph and solo is £165.
So am i right when i calculate i would pay 25x£215 and the rest would be at £165 as i wouldnt have an instructor with me in the helicopter/
Matt
Been looking at this and it says "You are required to undertake a minimum of 45 hours of training including 25 hours of dual control with your instructor, 10 hours of solo flying, 5 hours of instrument flying and 8 written exams."
So why dont the hours add up , 25 dual, 10 solo and 5 instrument are onlyh 35. Wheres the other 10?
Also , i have found a place that does R22 Dual training £215ph and solo is £165.
So am i right when i calculate i would pay 25x£215 and the rest would be at £165 as i wouldnt have an instructor with me in the helicopter/
Matt
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Wheres the other 10?
So am i right when i calculate i would pay 25x£215 and the rest would be at £165 as i wouldnt have an instructor with me in the helicopter
Cheers
Whirls
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Matt,
Don't know where you looked but your not exactly correct.
Civil Aviation Authority Home Page and use the search field to find LASORs
Section C2 details the requirements for a PPL(H).
Minimum course hours (without any credits for military flying, or holding a PPL(A)) are 45 Hrs.
The 25 hours of dual must include 5 hrs of simulated instrument flying.
The exact wording is 10 hours of supervised solo flight time - and this has to include 5 hrs of solo cross country flying and one cross country flight of atleast 100nm to involve full stop landings at two different airfields in addition to the airfield of departure.
The figures quoted are just the minimum. So if per chance you completed all the dual syllabus in 25 hours then you could do more solo flying etc etc.
That said average course duration is probably closer to 60-65 hours for many students, so I would not budget on just the minimum hours
The price you quote for dual more than likely does not include VAT, and in addition may not include landing or circuit fees. The solo rate you mention probably also needs VAT added and is more than likely a Self Fly Hire rate (ie what you'd pay once you held a licence and were flying solo). See the bit above - your solo flying time during your ppl course is 'Supervised' solo - ie an instructor is supervising what you do from the ground and will therefore be billed at a dual rate by the training school.
Also budget for a medical, course books and equipment, a ppl skills test fee and the flying time for the test (roughly 1.5- 2 hours), and the fee the CAA will charge you for the issue of your licence.
Rgds
FW
Don't know where you looked but your not exactly correct.
Civil Aviation Authority Home Page and use the search field to find LASORs
Section C2 details the requirements for a PPL(H).
Minimum course hours (without any credits for military flying, or holding a PPL(A)) are 45 Hrs.
The 25 hours of dual must include 5 hrs of simulated instrument flying.
The exact wording is 10 hours of supervised solo flight time - and this has to include 5 hrs of solo cross country flying and one cross country flight of atleast 100nm to involve full stop landings at two different airfields in addition to the airfield of departure.
The figures quoted are just the minimum. So if per chance you completed all the dual syllabus in 25 hours then you could do more solo flying etc etc.
That said average course duration is probably closer to 60-65 hours for many students, so I would not budget on just the minimum hours
The price you quote for dual more than likely does not include VAT, and in addition may not include landing or circuit fees. The solo rate you mention probably also needs VAT added and is more than likely a Self Fly Hire rate (ie what you'd pay once you held a licence and were flying solo). See the bit above - your solo flying time during your ppl course is 'Supervised' solo - ie an instructor is supervising what you do from the ground and will therefore be billed at a dual rate by the training school.
Also budget for a medical, course books and equipment, a ppl skills test fee and the flying time for the test (roughly 1.5- 2 hours), and the fee the CAA will charge you for the issue of your licence.
Rgds
FW
Cheap PPL(H)
Those hours are the minimums that you must have together with a total of 45 hours in order to get your licence.
If there were no minimum hours required for areas like cross country, solo etc then you could hammer around the circuit for 45 hours.
As for paying the solo rate when you are flying as a solo student then yes your instructor is required to be available on the ground the whole time you are flying so you will pay the dual rate.
If you are trying to budget for your flying training then remember 45 hours is the minimum. If you budget that figure to get your licence then you may be dissapointed.
If there were no minimum hours required for areas like cross country, solo etc then you could hammer around the circuit for 45 hours.
As for paying the solo rate when you are flying as a solo student then yes your instructor is required to be available on the ground the whole time you are flying so you will pay the dual rate.
If you are trying to budget for your flying training then remember 45 hours is the minimum. If you budget that figure to get your licence then you may be dissapointed.
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Hi,
Yeah it excluded VAT , so 45hrs at dual rate with VAT is £11126.25.
So how much extra on top of that would it be?
And is that a good price do you think?
I have the funds available now so could do 2hrs a day 7 days a week so would probably need close to the 45 than 60-65 so ive been told because the gap between the lessons arent big?
Matt
Yeah it excluded VAT , so 45hrs at dual rate with VAT is £11126.25.
So how much extra on top of that would it be?
And is that a good price do you think?
I have the funds available now so could do 2hrs a day 7 days a week so would probably need close to the 45 than 60-65 so ive been told because the gap between the lessons arent big?
Matt
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Doesn't matter how close the lesson are together, it usually takes the average person over 50 hrs for the PPL. But you may be above average, so you'll have to see. Other option is head over to Bristow Academy in Florida and do your JAA ppl for cheaper. I know you'll have to pay for accomodation but at least you won't have any weather delays and you will be able to get it done quickly. Just a thought!
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princepilot,
you should listen to flingingwings he speaks the truth.
I know there are people around who just did the 45 hours but
you should budget for around 60 hours plus the extras mentioned.
never pay for blocks of hours in advance
2 hours a day 7 days a week is IMO a silly idea.
you need to keep up with the groundschool, otherwise you will end up with a break at the end of the course while you get all the exams done before the test.
full time in this context should be no more then 5 days a weeks 2 hrs/day and you will really have to read fast to keep up.
also in sept 07 you said
I believe all the prices quoted are on an R22, max seat weight of 240lbs (17"2)
my calculations suggest that you need to have lost 68lbs since then for this not to be academic, or budget for a R44 with a max seat weight of 300lbs, only 8 lbs to lose in that case !
I beieve you need to stop thinking about "minimums" and think about good and effective training, decisions on which will depend on what your intentions are in the longer term.
good luck
regards
CF
you should listen to flingingwings he speaks the truth.
I know there are people around who just did the 45 hours but
you should budget for around 60 hours plus the extras mentioned.
never pay for blocks of hours in advance
2 hours a day 7 days a week is IMO a silly idea.
you need to keep up with the groundschool, otherwise you will end up with a break at the end of the course while you get all the exams done before the test.
full time in this context should be no more then 5 days a weeks 2 hrs/day and you will really have to read fast to keep up.
also in sept 07 you said
I live in stoke on trent, 29, a big lad (22 stone, but not all fat , lol), always wanted to fly , but dont have the money yet.
my calculations suggest that you need to have lost 68lbs since then for this not to be academic, or budget for a R44 with a max seat weight of 300lbs, only 8 lbs to lose in that case !
I beieve you need to stop thinking about "minimums" and think about good and effective training, decisions on which will depend on what your intentions are in the longer term.
good luck
regards
CF
Last edited by Camp Freddie; 23rd Aug 2009 at 22:18.
Matt
As FW says, an ab initio student will probably need somewhere between 60 and 70 hours before being up to the standard required to pass the exams. I'd budget for 65 hours (£16k inc VAT at those rates, plus overheads - course materials, exam fees, medical, etc.), but remember there are lots of students that have taken more than 70 hours (sometimes a LOT more!) to get their ticket. Don't run out of cash with only a few hours left to do!
Two things:
If you have a limited time in which to complete your training, don't assume that you'll get in 2 flying hours per day, 7 days a week; I think that's very optimistic. Apart from things like the good old British Wx, I think you'll find the average over the course will be more like 1 hour per day - if you're lucky.
Also, don't be tempted to pay for the whole course up front in return for a bigger discount unless you are satisfied the school is financially sound. I'd suggest negotiating something around blocks of, say, 10 hours at a time. There are lots of schools struggling at the moment and you'll be right at the bottom of the food chain when a receiver prioritises the list of creditors.
TTB
As FW says, an ab initio student will probably need somewhere between 60 and 70 hours before being up to the standard required to pass the exams. I'd budget for 65 hours (£16k inc VAT at those rates, plus overheads - course materials, exam fees, medical, etc.), but remember there are lots of students that have taken more than 70 hours (sometimes a LOT more!) to get their ticket. Don't run out of cash with only a few hours left to do!
Two things:
If you have a limited time in which to complete your training, don't assume that you'll get in 2 flying hours per day, 7 days a week; I think that's very optimistic. Apart from things like the good old British Wx, I think you'll find the average over the course will be more like 1 hour per day - if you're lucky.
Also, don't be tempted to pay for the whole course up front in return for a bigger discount unless you are satisfied the school is financially sound. I'd suggest negotiating something around blocks of, say, 10 hours at a time. There are lots of schools struggling at the moment and you'll be right at the bottom of the food chain when a receiver prioritises the list of creditors.
TTB
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As FW says, an ab initio student will probably need somewhere between 60 and 70 hours before being up to the standard required to pass the exams. I'd budget for 65 hours (£16k inc VAT at those rates, plus overheads - course materials, exam fees, medical, etc.), but remember there are lots of students that have taken more than 70 hours (sometimes a LOT more!)
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Usually the students that go over 70 hrs are well BELOW AVERAGE. I know a lot of people who have got their license with minimum hours or just over them.
Time to pass the test means little. Judging a student by the time it takes them to learn rather than their ability to absorb the information and retain it over the long term, becoming a safe pilot, would be a more sensible way of looking at it.
Hopefully it was just a badly worded comment. I'd far rather be in the air with the person who took the time to make sure they got it all right in their mind than the person who rushed it all and forgot it the next month.
If someone can absorb it in 45 hours, great! If they take 70, also great!. If they haven't absorbed it for the long term, that's a problem.
Lafite
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Firstly, have you got your medical? If not, do so now. I had a student who was super-fit, but due to some anomaly which turned out to be nothing, he had to wait several months before being able to go solo, which wasted a lot of time and money.
Secondly, those who take over 70 hours to get their PPL(H) are as likely to have suffered from poor weather as lack of aptitude...and winter is coming along.
Finally, don't you think you're concentrating too much on basic costs? Does the school have a good reputation; do you get on with the instructor; will they be able to fit you in for the hours you seem to have planned to fly - these sorts of things are far more important than the cost per hour.
Secondly, those who take over 70 hours to get their PPL(H) are as likely to have suffered from poor weather as lack of aptitude...and winter is coming along.
Finally, don't you think you're concentrating too much on basic costs? Does the school have a good reputation; do you get on with the instructor; will they be able to fit you in for the hours you seem to have planned to fly - these sorts of things are far more important than the cost per hour.
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also in sept 07 you said
Quote:
I live in stoke on trent, 29, a big lad (22 stone, but not all fat , lol), always wanted to fly , but dont have the money yet.
I believe all the prices quoted are on an R22, max seat weight of 240lbs (17"2)
Ive lost alot of weight since then , im only 17 stone now so only 238lb! so looks like i will just fit lol
Quote:
I live in stoke on trent, 29, a big lad (22 stone, but not all fat , lol), always wanted to fly , but dont have the money yet.
I believe all the prices quoted are on an R22, max seat weight of 240lbs (17"2)
Ive lost alot of weight since then , im only 17 stone now so only 238lb! so looks like i will just fit lol
Hovering AND talking
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Unfortunately 2lbs is the weight of your shoes! Most schools have a limit of 16 stone; they also need to consider the instructor's weight and the amount of fuel you could carry for a lesson. You may also wish to consider learning in a Schweizer as they are capable of a greater "payload".
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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Hi,
TBH i dont care what i learn on as long as the hourly rate is ok. Schweizzers are alot more if i remember right.
Perhaps i need to hit the gym twice a day for a few weeks!
TBH i dont care what i learn on as long as the hourly rate is ok. Schweizzers are alot more if i remember right.
Perhaps i need to hit the gym twice a day for a few weeks!
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If you're doing your PPL in the UK I would budget £17,000. It sounds a lot, but by the time you've paid for books, groundschool, landing fees, CAA fees, medical, admin fees, examiner fees, VAT, a few hours extra training as you were ill/went on holiday/got busy at work/had bad luck with the weather/got stuck on a manouvre, you will be spending close to that.
And there's nothing worse than running out of money two-thirds way through your PPL, or putting yourself under pressure as the money is running out.
And... anyway, you will need some money left over to actually do some flying for fun/r44 rating etc once you have your PPL
About 70% of people give up flying entirely after their PPL due to cost.
Oh, and hardly anyone gets their PPL on an R22 in minimum hours. Unless they have significant flying experience from elsewhere (fixed wing, military etc).
And there's nothing worse than running out of money two-thirds way through your PPL, or putting yourself under pressure as the money is running out.
And... anyway, you will need some money left over to actually do some flying for fun/r44 rating etc once you have your PPL
About 70% of people give up flying entirely after their PPL due to cost.
Oh, and hardly anyone gets their PPL on an R22 in minimum hours. Unless they have significant flying experience from elsewhere (fixed wing, military etc).
Last edited by manfromuncle; 24th Aug 2009 at 10:09.
The average my students take to pass is 54 hours in a Schweizer.
Having worked in schools with both 300 and 22/44 the 300 students normally pass in about 12% less hours
Dont forget the following costs.
1. Medical £ 175
2. Books etc etc £ 220
3. PPL exams can be as much as £ 50 a go times 7 ( thats if you pass first time)
4. Skills test fee allow £ 250 plus examiner travelling
5. CAA licence issue £ 168
Do not fly more than 3 sessions a week ( session is 2 lessons in a morning or afternoon), the brain in the first half of the course needs to assimilate the information, let alone trying to keep up with the book work.
Having worked in schools with both 300 and 22/44 the 300 students normally pass in about 12% less hours
Dont forget the following costs.
1. Medical £ 175
2. Books etc etc £ 220
3. PPL exams can be as much as £ 50 a go times 7 ( thats if you pass first time)
4. Skills test fee allow £ 250 plus examiner travelling
5. CAA licence issue £ 168
Do not fly more than 3 sessions a week ( session is 2 lessons in a morning or afternoon), the brain in the first half of the course needs to assimilate the information, let alone trying to keep up with the book work.
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I did my PPL(H) in less than 45 hours, including the test. It can be done if you are switched on, eyes wide open and wide awake, and have confidence and talent. In addition, I paid the whole course up front and recieved a healty discount. Did it in 4 months over the winter season. I enjoyed every minute and at the time it was the best thing I had ever done. Go for it.
I got my PPL(H) in 43 hours including the exam, in about a month from start to finish - flying often is good, just not more than an hour or so at a time in the beginning because you'll be pretty brain fried. This was in the R22 in the late 80's before the SFAR...
It also probably helped that I had about 800 hours of military enlisted crewmember time, so being in a helicopter to begin with wasn't new. I also was familiar with radio usage & could read maps pretty well
It also probably helped that I had about 800 hours of military enlisted crewmember time, so being in a helicopter to begin with wasn't new. I also was familiar with radio usage & could read maps pretty well