GOM Air Log crash and AEL ems crash
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GOM Air Log crash and AEL ems crash
One dies in Gulf helicopter crash
Sunday, December 30, 2007From staff reports
An Air Logistics helicopter crashed with four people aboard Saturday about 6 p.m. two miles east of a jetty halfway up Southwest Pass, the Coast Guard said.
One person died in the crash. Of the three survivors, one was airlifted to a hospital to be treated for hypothermia, the Coast Guard said.
The Coast Guard said it received a distress call from a shrimp vessel, Sally Kim 4, reporting that a helicopter had crashed and that the boat's crew had recovered three people.
The Coast Guard station in Venice sent two boats to the scene. A rescue helicopter had to return to base because of stormy weather.
A Southwest Pass pilot boat also assisted in the search for the fourth passenger.
Air Evac helicopter crashes during search; no survivors reported
By Tom Smith
Senior Staff Writer
Last Updated
ecember 30. 2007 4:19AM
Published: December 30. 2007 3:30AM
Last Modified: December 30. 2007 4:19AM
An Air Evac helicopter searching for a lost hunter crashed early today in a wooded area of Colbert County. There were no survivors, authorities said.
The crash happened at about 3 a.m. just off Mount Mills Road. The crash scene is south of Barton.
It was unclear as of 4 a.m. how many people were inside the helicopter. Officials said Air Evac normally uses three-man crews.
Air Evac is an air ambulance service, which also assists in search and rescue missions.
Emergency management personnel began searching for the hunter at about 1 a.m., according to Mike Melton, director of the Colbert County Emergency Management Authority.
One man involved in the search said the Air Evac crew had spotted the man just before 3 a.m. and were holding a spotlight on him to show ground searchers where to find him. Suddenly, the helicopter crashed, causing a huge explosion.
The hunter was uninjured, officials said.
Melton said investigators with the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Security Board were dispatched to the scene just before 4 a.m. and will handle the investigation into what caused the crash.
Sunday, December 30, 2007From staff reports
An Air Logistics helicopter crashed with four people aboard Saturday about 6 p.m. two miles east of a jetty halfway up Southwest Pass, the Coast Guard said.
One person died in the crash. Of the three survivors, one was airlifted to a hospital to be treated for hypothermia, the Coast Guard said.
The Coast Guard said it received a distress call from a shrimp vessel, Sally Kim 4, reporting that a helicopter had crashed and that the boat's crew had recovered three people.
The Coast Guard station in Venice sent two boats to the scene. A rescue helicopter had to return to base because of stormy weather.
A Southwest Pass pilot boat also assisted in the search for the fourth passenger.
Air Evac helicopter crashes during search; no survivors reported
By Tom Smith
Senior Staff Writer
Last Updated
ecember 30. 2007 4:19AMPublished: December 30. 2007 3:30AM
Last Modified: December 30. 2007 4:19AM
An Air Evac helicopter searching for a lost hunter crashed early today in a wooded area of Colbert County. There were no survivors, authorities said.
The crash happened at about 3 a.m. just off Mount Mills Road. The crash scene is south of Barton.
It was unclear as of 4 a.m. how many people were inside the helicopter. Officials said Air Evac normally uses three-man crews.
Air Evac is an air ambulance service, which also assists in search and rescue missions.
Emergency management personnel began searching for the hunter at about 1 a.m., according to Mike Melton, director of the Colbert County Emergency Management Authority.
One man involved in the search said the Air Evac crew had spotted the man just before 3 a.m. and were holding a spotlight on him to show ground searchers where to find him. Suddenly, the helicopter crashed, causing a huge explosion.
The hunter was uninjured, officials said.
Melton said investigators with the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Security Board were dispatched to the scene just before 4 a.m. and will handle the investigation into what caused the crash.
Perhaps I miss something here Tott?
A few quick questions....
What was an AEL EMS helicopter doing searching for a lost hunter?
Why would the helicopter hover while pointing the light....would not a safe orbit at some safe height not make the aircraft much more visiible to folks on the ground?
Just what happened to the Air Log aircraft?
Why was a survivor suffering from hypothermia....is not the Gulf of Mexico such a benign environment that immersion suits are not required in the event of a ditching?
Did the aircraft have internal or external life rafts?
Perhaps you wrote that comment while you were on night shift and were not at top form due to the lack of sleep?
Critical analysis of every accident to surface data for "Lessons Learned" ought to be a basic part of every accident investgation and then be used to improve the existing way of doing business with a view towards preventing future accidents of the same kind and enhancing the survivability of those folks involved in such events.
Sorry Tott but I can think of lots of questions posed by the two crashes.
A few quick questions....
What was an AEL EMS helicopter doing searching for a lost hunter?
Why would the helicopter hover while pointing the light....would not a safe orbit at some safe height not make the aircraft much more visiible to folks on the ground?
Just what happened to the Air Log aircraft?
Why was a survivor suffering from hypothermia....is not the Gulf of Mexico such a benign environment that immersion suits are not required in the event of a ditching?
Did the aircraft have internal or external life rafts?
Perhaps you wrote that comment while you were on night shift and were not at top form due to the lack of sleep?
Critical analysis of every accident to surface data for "Lessons Learned" ought to be a basic part of every accident investgation and then be used to improve the existing way of doing business with a view towards preventing future accidents of the same kind and enhancing the survivability of those folks involved in such events.
Sorry Tott but I can think of lots of questions posed by the two crashes.
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GOM water temperature
GOM water temperature at this time of year is pretty cold. Latest water temperature reading from the Galveston, TX sea buoy is 60F/15C. Under those conditions and without any protective garments, you will lose dexterity in about 40 minutes. Exhaustion or loss of consciousness will occur in from 2 to 7 hours.
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One man involved in the search said the Air Evac crew had spotted the man just before 3 a.m. and were holding a spotlight on him to show ground searchers where to find him. Suddenly, the helicopter crashed, causing a huge explosion.
Your powers of perception are incredible. Not one, but a second psychic genius who knows precisely what occurred without any information beyond the news reports.
Maybe you are correct, but then again maybe no-one has shared any of the information regarding what occurred?
I find this pretty amazing that anyone can offer such an informed guess. While it certainly may be one scenario, what purpose does any of this speculation serve?
I'm surprised the FAA and NTSB don't contact you directly following every accident or incident as you would be able to save a huge amount of time and effort, in fact they could probably disband both organizations.
Maybe you are correct, but then again maybe no-one has shared any of the information regarding what occurred?
I find this pretty amazing that anyone can offer such an informed guess. While it certainly may be one scenario, what purpose does any of this speculation serve?
I'm surprised the FAA and NTSB don't contact you directly following every accident or incident as you would be able to save a huge amount of time and effort, in fact they could probably disband both organizations.
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This type of accident shouldn't happen. Flying at night over featureless terrain is not VFR its IFR.
In order to avoid this type of accident (CFIT) these types of operations-night offshore and SAR- require an IFR capable aircraft and 2 qualified and capable IFR pilots, and if you are doing SAR at night you need specialized training.
In order to avoid this type of accident (CFIT) these types of operations-night offshore and SAR- require an IFR capable aircraft and 2 qualified and capable IFR pilots, and if you are doing SAR at night you need specialized training.
SAS, Um, Flung, ya'll hit the nail on the head.
One small detail that got me baffled is that the GoM helicopter was flying at 6:00 PM, and it was a blue helicopter.
SAS as far as your thoughts regarding the EMS helicopter doing a "Search and Assist" mission at night, they are exactly what I though.
Maybe Devil49 can jump in and provide more detail, I believe he flies in that neck of the woods.
We have all flown both types of jobs and some in that very same type of a/c involved in the crashes, it does indeed deeply saddens me that time and time again someone can still allow himself/herself to get caught in situations like these.
My comment did not by any mean have the intention of being sarchastic nor show a lack of respect, far from that, I grieve those losses like everyone else and I am actually enraged by the uselessness of them.
The sadder part is that if the crash investigations reveal nothing wrong with the airframes (if at all), it shall than be "pilot error" and no one, NO ONE up the chain of command shall give a damn about their direct responsibilities in the chain of events, nor shall they pay a dime for them.
Cyclic Hotline, thank you for the compliment.
One small detail that got me baffled is that the GoM helicopter was flying at 6:00 PM, and it was a blue helicopter.
SAS as far as your thoughts regarding the EMS helicopter doing a "Search and Assist" mission at night, they are exactly what I though.
Maybe Devil49 can jump in and provide more detail, I believe he flies in that neck of the woods.
We have all flown both types of jobs and some in that very same type of a/c involved in the crashes, it does indeed deeply saddens me that time and time again someone can still allow himself/herself to get caught in situations like these.
My comment did not by any mean have the intention of being sarchastic nor show a lack of respect, far from that, I grieve those losses like everyone else and I am actually enraged by the uselessness of them.
The sadder part is that if the crash investigations reveal nothing wrong with the airframes (if at all), it shall than be "pilot error" and no one, NO ONE up the chain of command shall give a damn about their direct responsibilities in the chain of events, nor shall they pay a dime for them.
Cyclic Hotline, thank you for the compliment.
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Condolences.
I have thought this often over the years I have been involved in EMS/SAR/etc. As well as or in many cases INSTEAD of Pilot error....Maybe there needs to be a category of "tasking" error with appropriate post incident accountability.
What would possess a tasking agency/911/Operations manager to dispatch a single engined VFR single pilot aircraft at night to look for a hunter who is probably hold up under a tree, camo nomex jacket or a camo poncho. IMHO this is the type of task reserved for tasking agencies to call a crew IN TIME FOR first light departure.
Risking three lives to look for someone who is missing but otherwise condition uncertain is bizarre. But, I wasn't there and DO NOT cast judgement on that unfortunate crew.
DD
I have thought this often over the years I have been involved in EMS/SAR/etc. As well as or in many cases INSTEAD of Pilot error....Maybe there needs to be a category of "tasking" error with appropriate post incident accountability.
What would possess a tasking agency/911/Operations manager to dispatch a single engined VFR single pilot aircraft at night to look for a hunter who is probably hold up under a tree, camo nomex jacket or a camo poncho. IMHO this is the type of task reserved for tasking agencies to call a crew IN TIME FOR first light departure.
Risking three lives to look for someone who is missing but otherwise condition uncertain is bizarre. But, I wasn't there and DO NOT cast judgement on that unfortunate crew.
DD
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flungdung - How do you know what the weather conditions where like in Southwest Pass? where you out flying there when this happened? actually do you even know where Southwest Pass is? The company involved has the most restrictive policy concerning flight in marginal conditions in the entire GOMEX.
So far there is actually very little information on what actually transpired. So I suggest that before you open your mouth and put forth a baseless conclusion you wait for the details to come out.
Lets not forget that a life was lost.
People like you make me ill.
So far there is actually very little information on what actually transpired. So I suggest that before you open your mouth and put forth a baseless conclusion you wait for the details to come out.
Lets not forget that a life was lost.
People like you make me ill.
Does it now? the accident apparently took place at 6PM, it was well over 45 minutes after sunset.
Care to explain THAT to us Top Gun Zulu?
The weather was less than lousy yesterday in that part of the gulf, we do get regular bulletins down here, and WE ARE HERE.
Care to explain THAT to us Top Gun Zulu?
The weather was less than lousy yesterday in that part of the gulf, we do get regular bulletins down here, and WE ARE HERE.
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Tragedy
Is it verified that it was 1800 hrs when the Southwest Pass crash occurred? And was it verified that it was a single pilot ( and thus VFR ) Airlog aircraft? If so, that's highly unusual for GOMEX ops. ( yes I fly there ). We don't fly after sunset, much less after twilight in a VFR aircraft, and sunset this time of year is approx 17:00.
My condolences to the families.
Beez
My condolences to the families.
Beez
Seems my questions raised some interesting responses.
The conventional wisdom in the GOM is Immersion suits of any kind are not needed even in the winter.
Thankfully, the survivors were plucked out of the water within a few hours. Imagine if they had to spend the night out bobbing in the oggin without benefit of a raft or immersion suit. What would have been the probability of a safe rescue then?
Only a very few EMS operations train for Search and are capable of doing rescues. I can confirm the forested areas of Arkanasa can be mighty dark at the best of times.
How equipped are AEL Jet Rangers for instrument flight? Radar Altimeters and the rest of the goodies installed?
Tott has always been a positive contributor to Rotorheads and by his admission confirms what we all know. Ask Devil 49 about the dangers of middle of the night operations.
Air Log certainly will be trying to determine why that aircraft was out at night in bad weather in apparant violation of their policies.
We have to be careful out there.....
The conventional wisdom in the GOM is Immersion suits of any kind are not needed even in the winter.
Thankfully, the survivors were plucked out of the water within a few hours. Imagine if they had to spend the night out bobbing in the oggin without benefit of a raft or immersion suit. What would have been the probability of a safe rescue then?
Only a very few EMS operations train for Search and are capable of doing rescues. I can confirm the forested areas of Arkanasa can be mighty dark at the best of times.
How equipped are AEL Jet Rangers for instrument flight? Radar Altimeters and the rest of the goodies installed?
Tott has always been a positive contributor to Rotorheads and by his admission confirms what we all know. Ask Devil 49 about the dangers of middle of the night operations.
Air Log certainly will be trying to determine why that aircraft was out at night in bad weather in apparant violation of their policies.
We have to be careful out there.....
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Not much about the GOM accident makes sense unless it was a IFR ship.
I cannot ever imagine Air Log sending a VFR single after dark. It just
doesn't happen. Even in good weather as far as I know. Tottogol,
your posts are about as coherent as Vermillion Bay on a foggy
January morning. What do you know about the accident that
makes it "useless(ness)"?
I cannot ever imagine Air Log sending a VFR single after dark. It just
doesn't happen. Even in good weather as far as I know. Tottogol,
your posts are about as coherent as Vermillion Bay on a foggy
January morning. What do you know about the accident that
makes it "useless(ness)"?
Well Helonorth, I am sorry to say you are wrong. The GoM accident involved a Bell 206L of the guys in blue.
It apparently happened at 18:00 or thereabouts in the SW Pass area, glad I was not there yesterday as the WX sucked with heavy thunderstorms moving W to E late in the afternoon.
Happy to see you enjoy Vermillion Bay WX, out of.....ICY perhaps?
I made no comments regarding this crash, other than self explanatory.
I could go at lenghts in discussing the EMS crash, but it's not my intent, as it seems that many experienced colleagues posting on these pages were able to reach conclusions without my support.
Enough of this, penalty the risk of lowering this forum to level of ones preferred by other types.
Cheers.
Coast Guard Responding to Helicopter Crash
Posted By John on December 29th, 2007
NEW ORLEANS - Coast Guard crews are responding to a helicopter crash with four passengers onboard which occured at approximately 6 p.m. today two miles east of the jetty approximately halfway up the Southwest Pass.
Coast Guard Sector New Orleans received a mayday call from the shrimp vessel Sally Kim 4 reporting that an Air Logistics helicopter had crashed and they have recovered three passengers.
Coast Guard Station Venice is arriving on scene with 33-foot and 41-foot small boats. Air Station New Orleans attempted to launched and HH-65C rescue helicopter crew but had to return to base due to inclement weather. A Southwest Pass pilot boat is also on scene assisting in the search for the one remaining helicopter crew member.
It apparently happened at 18:00 or thereabouts in the SW Pass area, glad I was not there yesterday as the WX sucked with heavy thunderstorms moving W to E late in the afternoon.
Happy to see you enjoy Vermillion Bay WX, out of.....ICY perhaps?
I made no comments regarding this crash, other than self explanatory.
I could go at lenghts in discussing the EMS crash, but it's not my intent, as it seems that many experienced colleagues posting on these pages were able to reach conclusions without my support.
Enough of this, penalty the risk of lowering this forum to level of ones preferred by other types.
Cheers.
Coast Guard Responding to Helicopter Crash
Posted By John on December 29th, 2007
NEW ORLEANS - Coast Guard crews are responding to a helicopter crash with four passengers onboard which occured at approximately 6 p.m. today two miles east of the jetty approximately halfway up the Southwest Pass.
Coast Guard Sector New Orleans received a mayday call from the shrimp vessel Sally Kim 4 reporting that an Air Logistics helicopter had crashed and they have recovered three passengers.
Coast Guard Station Venice is arriving on scene with 33-foot and 41-foot small boats. Air Station New Orleans attempted to launched and HH-65C rescue helicopter crew but had to return to base due to inclement weather. A Southwest Pass pilot boat is also on scene assisting in the search for the one remaining helicopter crew member.
Last edited by tottigol; 31st Dec 2007 at 00:40.
"Just a pilot"
Y'all, I don't know anything about the AEL crash in Alabama besides what's in the media- three people went out at night, to find a somebody in the woods, and quickly found him. I've read that the search started at 0130, and at 0305, it was over, with the AEL crew dead. An aside- I've flown as part of a Gulf of Mexico multiple aircraft search that took 8 hours to find somebody less than a mile from their platform's location. The AEL crew did spectacularly well in a difficult task.
I've flown enough hunters out of the woods to understand the feeling of urgency when a solo hunter's missing. If you don't know anything except someone's not where they planned to be, that's all it is, a "feeling"- fear. That's a pretty skinny reason to put someone's life on the line.
The last night search I was party to resulted in: an arrest for false report; a search team finding a very cranky bear; and one rescuer being medevaced.
There's lots of things that can go wrong and not much opportunity for correction if you're low, slow, with nowhere to go, at night, distracted, holding a spotlight on a ground position, especially in a 206- LTE- some of the articles describe the helo as hovering before it crashed.
I've flown enough hunters out of the woods to understand the feeling of urgency when a solo hunter's missing. If you don't know anything except someone's not where they planned to be, that's all it is, a "feeling"- fear. That's a pretty skinny reason to put someone's life on the line.
The last night search I was party to resulted in: an arrest for false report; a search team finding a very cranky bear; and one rescuer being medevaced.
There's lots of things that can go wrong and not much opportunity for correction if you're low, slow, with nowhere to go, at night, distracted, holding a spotlight on a ground position, especially in a 206- LTE- some of the articles describe the helo as hovering before it crashed.
A news update reports one of the ground rescue team members having seen the helicopter striking a feeder line to a nearby steam powerplant.
A mayday call was supposedly made.
A mayday call was supposedly made.