Vertical Reference
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vertical Reference
G'day all,
Just a quick question,
What does the term 'Vertical Reference' mean ?
Is it a rating etc, and how can I get this tick in the box to be used later on down the track ?
We don't have it where I'm from Australia (that I know of), and am wondering if there is any equivalent ?
Thanks in advance, and Merry Chrstmas and Happy New Year to all.
Loachy
Just a quick question,
What does the term 'Vertical Reference' mean ?
Is it a rating etc, and how can I get this tick in the box to be used later on down the track ?
We don't have it where I'm from Australia (that I know of), and am wondering if there is any equivalent ?
Thanks in advance, and Merry Chrstmas and Happy New Year to all.
Loachy
Vertical reference is just the term used when you are flying a long line and instead of looking forward you are looking straight down at the load--hence "Vertical reference". I can assure you there are people in Australia flying VR.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Western US
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Long-line in the US is vertical reference using a line over 150 feet in length. The
US Forest Service/ AMD used to consider anything over 100 feet long line, but the increased number of accidents/incidents the last few years caused them to up the length.
US Forest Service/ AMD used to consider anything over 100 feet long line, but the increased number of accidents/incidents the last few years caused them to up the length.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Western US
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I may have spoken too soon Gordy. I haven't seen anything explicitly in writing. I the "150ft" statment I made comes from conversations with an inspector pilot with AMD from Boise. The USFS might not be strictly enforcing "150ft = Long line" yet, as seen in this info take from a recent solicitation from R-8.
EXHIBIT 9 Interagency Guidelines for Vertical Reference/External Load Training Standards
A.Interagency helicopter standards require that Contractors develop a Vertical
Reference/External Load training syllabus and that Contract pilots receive
this training before applying for agency Special Use approval. The applicant
shall have a minimum of 10-hours Vertical Reference/External Load flight
training during initial qualification, and a minimum of 2-hours annual
recurrent training prior to use under the Contract. The Contract pilot shall
have a current proficiency endorsement from the company's chief pilot in
order to qualify for a flight evaluation by an Interagency HIP.
B.The pilot shall be able to demonstrate proficiency with either 100 to
150-feet length lines, and:
C.Exhibit knowledge by explaining the elements of external load operations.
D.Perform a thorough preflight briefing of ground personnel to include hookup
procedures, signals, pilot, and ground personnel actions in the event of an
emergency or hook malfunction.
E.Visually determine that the cargo hook(s) and cables are installed properly
and that electrical and manual releases are functioning properly.
F.Ascend vertically using vertical reference techniques while centered over
the load until the load clears the ground, then maintain a stable hover with
a load 10-feet (+ - 5-feet) above the ground for 30-seconds.
G.Control the hook movement and stop load oscillations while in a hover.
H.Maintain positive control of the load throughout the flight while maintaining
specified altitude within 50-feet, airspeed within 10-knots and heading
within 10.
I.Maintain the proper approach angle and rate of closure to establish an
out-of-ground effect hover with the load 10 feet above the ground (+
-5-feet) for 30-seconds. The load will then be placed within a 10- foot
radius of the specified release/touchdown point.
J.Maintain the proper approach angle and rate of closure to establish an
out-of-ground effect hover within a confined area with the load 10-feet
above the ground (+ - 5-feet) for 30-seconds. The load will then be placed
within a 10-feet radius of the specified release/touchdown point.
EXHIBIT 9 Interagency Guidelines for Vertical Reference/External Load Training Standards
A.Interagency helicopter standards require that Contractors develop a Vertical
Reference/External Load training syllabus and that Contract pilots receive
this training before applying for agency Special Use approval. The applicant
shall have a minimum of 10-hours Vertical Reference/External Load flight
training during initial qualification, and a minimum of 2-hours annual
recurrent training prior to use under the Contract. The Contract pilot shall
have a current proficiency endorsement from the company's chief pilot in
order to qualify for a flight evaluation by an Interagency HIP.
B.The pilot shall be able to demonstrate proficiency with either 100 to
150-feet length lines, and:
C.Exhibit knowledge by explaining the elements of external load operations.
D.Perform a thorough preflight briefing of ground personnel to include hookup
procedures, signals, pilot, and ground personnel actions in the event of an
emergency or hook malfunction.
E.Visually determine that the cargo hook(s) and cables are installed properly
and that electrical and manual releases are functioning properly.
F.Ascend vertically using vertical reference techniques while centered over
the load until the load clears the ground, then maintain a stable hover with
a load 10-feet (+ - 5-feet) above the ground for 30-seconds.
G.Control the hook movement and stop load oscillations while in a hover.
H.Maintain positive control of the load throughout the flight while maintaining
specified altitude within 50-feet, airspeed within 10-knots and heading
within 10.
I.Maintain the proper approach angle and rate of closure to establish an
out-of-ground effect hover with the load 10 feet above the ground (+
-5-feet) for 30-seconds. The load will then be placed within a 10- foot
radius of the specified release/touchdown point.
J.Maintain the proper approach angle and rate of closure to establish an
out-of-ground effect hover within a confined area with the load 10-feet
above the ground (+ - 5-feet) for 30-seconds. The load will then be placed
within a 10-feet radius of the specified release/touchdown point.
Last edited by Firepilot; 16th Dec 2007 at 03:13. Reason: Formatting
That excert is the same one as in one of my region 8 contracts, (Kentucky), and I had to do that test last year, however, it is not policy that 150ft is considered long line. THat is a specific requirement for a contract, just the same as there are more stringent requirements and demonstrations on a short haul contract.
So, was that you who stopped in at the POkie base in October or did we meet somewhere else?
So, was that you who stopped in at the POkie base in October or did we meet somewhere else?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vertical Ref
When I did my vert Ref check out it took me about 50 hrs to be really comfortable how ever this varies from man to man and I did it at 200 foot
One thing for sure if some one wants to bull**** that they can do it, forget! because the client will see it straight away. This is one part helicopter flying that has been the real challenge in my flying carreer.
This is real helicopter flying and a real challenge great.
One thing for sure if some one wants to bull**** that they can do it, forget! because the client will see it straight away. This is one part helicopter flying that has been the real challenge in my flying carreer.
This is real helicopter flying and a real challenge great.
Last edited by Ferrit; 16th Dec 2007 at 16:50. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: la la land
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let’s say you are approaching a confined area, for example a logging helipad somewhere along the West Coast of Canada. Let’s assume the surrounding trees are roughly 200 feet tall and you just have enough clearance to “vertical” down onto the landing pad…no long line attached! You have to look straight down to make that pad. I would say that’s just as much “vertical reference” flying as it is with an external load while looking straight down. And…not all external load flying is “vertical reference”. Many pilots in Europe fly external loads just by mirrors and/or helpers on the ground.
There is a nice video on youtube where an EC135 and EC 155 of the glorious German police is “bucketing” on what appears to be a wildfire. It made me giggle quite a bit, but I guess we are all doing our “Best” or at least what we think it is!
There is a nice video on youtube where an EC135 and EC 155 of the glorious German police is “bucketing” on what appears to be a wildfire. It made me giggle quite a bit, but I guess we are all doing our “Best” or at least what we think it is!
Thanks to all.
Hammer,
Using your logic....next time you join the Missus for a tumble...keep all yer clothes on. Kissing alone leaves a lot left undone.
That is what you are suggesting here with the idea of doing VR without a longline hanging down under the aircraft.
Please to remember you have to land the aircraft in the same area you coil the longline and not land on top of the thing, the fuel bowser, log deck, shovel, log trucks, and loggers.
Using your logic....next time you join the Missus for a tumble...keep all yer clothes on. Kissing alone leaves a lot left undone.
That is what you are suggesting here with the idea of doing VR without a longline hanging down under the aircraft.
Please to remember you have to land the aircraft in the same area you coil the longline and not land on top of the thing, the fuel bowser, log deck, shovel, log trucks, and loggers.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: la la land
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lol…what happens when the Missus and I go for a tumble is merely a function of time, mood and other factors! But…let’s not go there…shall we!?! Let’s just say we like diversity!
The whole point is, there are many other situations in which you have to fly the helicopter by looking straight down aka “vertical reference” without a long line attached to the helicopter.
Landing the helicopter with the shiny side up and avoiding all kinds of foreign objects is the goal of almost every flight I believe! At least, that’s what they told me in flight school many moon’s ago!
The whole point is, there are many other situations in which you have to fly the helicopter by looking straight down aka “vertical reference” without a long line attached to the helicopter.
Landing the helicopter with the shiny side up and avoiding all kinds of foreign objects is the goal of almost every flight I believe! At least, that’s what they told me in flight school many moon’s ago!
