Police Industrial Action

[Max_Chat]

This has indeed been an interesting discussion. I think that the real point is not how much a Pilot gets paid or a Police Officer gets paid or a poor old squadie in Afghanistan facing death each day gets paid, but the underhand way the Government has behaved. It has lost the trust and support of the Police and have, IMHO, behaved in a dishonourable and crass manner. They will regret this decision for along time I am sure.

[volrider]

Back to the crewroom 4x4s if I may. Is it safer, better environmentally and more cost effective for;
a. Wife to drive kids 10 mins across town to school in 4x4 and hubby to drive 35 mins to work in saloon.
b. Hubby to drive 35 mins to work in 4x4 and wife to drive kids 10 mins across town to school in saloon.
4x4........5* (pax) 2* (ped) NCAP ratings.
Saloon... 4* (pax) 1* (ped) NCAP ratings.
4x4 has 18 airbags/air curtains etc etc
Saloon has 6 airbags and an etc

Sid
in answer
A: Make the idle cow walk it will be healthy for the ankle snappers and help keep her trim as well, bonus!
B: Drive what you like as you are a Man

[timex]

This has indeed been an interesting discussion. I think that the real point is not how much a Pilot gets paid or a Police Officer gets paid or a poor old squadie in Afghanistan facing death each day gets paid, but the underhand way the Government has behaved. It has lost the trust and support of the Police and have, IMHO, behaved in a dishonourable and crass manner. They will regret this decision for along time I am sure

Best point made so far. Either way this dispute goes I can only hope that it leads to the removal of this shower of ****e from power, if not then which other Public service will be next? The Military ?

[Gaseous]

the underhand way the Government has behaved

Thats what they do best.

I used to work for the NHS but they treated my profession in the same way. Staged payrises with a year on year falling behind in the pay stakes while the politicians awarded themselves double digit pay rises, plus they ruined the service for both providers and users. They constantly interfered with review body recommendations. They introduced masses of unhelpful bureaucracy and revenue raising regulation. I got out.

I feel for the police, I really do. They are at the mercy of this unscrupulous shower and the prospects don't look good.

If the government got rid of the useless clipboard toting, brochure printing, non productive, politically correct, bull**** ridden bureaucracy that has ruined our public services perhaps they could pay sufficient police sufficient pay to do the job they need to do.

[huntnhound]

"....If the government got rid of the useless clipboard toting, brochure printing, non productive, politically correct, bull**** ridden bureaucracy that has ruined our public services perhaps they could pay sufficient police sufficient pay to do the job they need to do.
..."

Gaseous...thats it...I`m voting for you at the next election. How about starting a party called "None of the above" ?

Silsoe Syd could be minister for political correctness

Hnh

[volrider]

can I be minister of political correctness punishment. ( thats to say the PC folk get it!!) Also can I be the new management broom... I know a great place to put that broom... in the new managers

[volrider]

A thought for the Home Secretary.....

A turkey was chatting with a bull.

'I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree' sighed the turkey, 'but I haven't got the energy.'
'Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?' replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients.'

The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree.

The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch.

Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree.

He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree.


Moral of the story:
Bull **** might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there..

[SilsoeSid]

maxdrypower

Silsoe Sid I grossed exactly 32014 last year no ot no rewards no benefits whatsoever I wont go into the reasons . Shame your not on my unit Ill wager you wouldnt eb so vocal then .

If I am allowed to go back to my earlier point, if max was to include in his statement above his competency threshold, housing allowance and special priority payments, we would find out that his wage would be directly comparable to a contracted pilot.

Now, bear in mind that he would be allowed to work overtime and also get bank holiday allowances, his wage in a normal year would in fact be higher than a lot, if not most, non directly employed pilots.

Going by the most recent adverts for pilots vacancies, Lancashire: £37671 - £44855, I would suggest that a top rate PC in a normal healthy year would, in certain parts of the country, be on more than the line pilots.

Max admits to getting over £32k with no rewards or benefits. Add them on, as mentioned above, lets say £4,700 (figures from the front line!) that puts him on more than £36,700. Now add a bit of overtime and some bank holiday shifts and max gets to have a nice big smug, but keep it quiet, smile on his face.

Shame your not on my unit Ill wager you wouldnt eb so vocal then .

This was discussed in a crewroom and was conducted in an adult way. I wonder why maxs crewroom would be different.
Perhaps facts muddy his views!

[manfromuncle]

Mmm.... try being an instructor. £20k a year, no pay-rises for the last 4 years, no pension or any benefits whatsoever. And you've spent £50,000 of your own money to get there. That's the 'real' world.

I'd bite anyone's hand off for a police job for far less than they currently get paid. There are many of us out there that will.

[sss]

I'd bite anyone's hand off for a police job for far less than they currently get paid. There are many of us out there that will.

four police forces are currently recruiting, enjoy

http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/index.php

[zorab64]

Huntnhound - (post #34) needs a reply, albeit delayed:-

1. They can go on strike.
2. They can always draw on their millitary pension
3. They can leave and go and work on the rigs.
4. They can leave and work for a better paid ASU

I'd suggest these options are a little misguided and not as simple as they sound:
1. - Only if directly employed and not really relevant if contracted, unless your company is unable to negotiate a more reasonable pay-rise on your behalf, in which case you might like to consider Option 3 or 4, in the latter case read "Company or ASU" for "ASU"!
2. - NO THEY CANNOT - it's been discussed many times on this forum that the lower level of salaries paid to Police Pilots has been the result of companies and forces taking advantage of the military pensions paid to many of the pilots. However, I know of at least one ASU where the non-pensioned CP is effectively paid less than his pensioned Line Pilots!
3. - Not quite so easy unless you're young, free & single - or are at least prepared to move to the Granite City!
4. - Similar to Option 3 - & see comments re Option 1.
All of this notwithstanding, I'd certainly agree with all comments relating to the underhanded manner in which the shower in charge of this country have dealt with this whole issue - as has been said, it's not the money, it's the principle. Doesn't help when a chancellor starts his tenure with a £20bn surplus & turns it into a £20bn deficit in 8 years

[bananaskiner]

if max was to include in his statement above his competency threshold, housing allowance and special priority payments, we would find out that his wage would be directly comparable to a contracted pilot.

• Competency pay. - Not applicable (3 more years to work)*
• Housing Allowance - Not applicable (officers joining after 1994 dont receive it)
• Special Priority Payment - Not Applicable. My chief Constable doesnt think our job is difficult enough, technical enough, nor is it a difficult enough post to fill (apparently)

*Competency pay is worth about 800 quid for the year when I do eventualy qualify for it.

My gross pay for the last year was just under 34k, WITH overtime working on bank holidays and one or two bits of covering for sickness. Im not allowed to do overtime for any other dept nor gain secondary employment for my days off 'cos my "managment" wont allow it.

Now Im a pretty sort of average cop / observer, in an average situation. So I dont think there will be much difference across the board. Im not pleading poverty, I earn more money doing this job than I can earn doing anything else now that im a bit longer in the tooth.. and dont want to re-train to be plumber or something

But please dont tell me Im over paid.
Ive been kicked unconcious, rammed by a stolen transit van, bitten by HIV positive prozzies (on 2 occasions), and spat in the face by gypsies. The list of sh*t crappy things Ive had to is endless, just like any other cop.
I dont face any of that sh*t now, but if push comes to shove when my time in the air is finished, its back on the front line for me..!

AND Im particularly impressed by the news that civilian support workers are getting 2.5% this year AND it will be back dated to Sept.. So those units with directly employed Pilots will be in the situation where the Pilots get back-dated pay rises but the Observers wont.? now thats good for CRM isnt it.

[volrider]

Sid
I earned 38.5K last year however you seem to forget that to earn more I would have to work extra time, which you do not have to at all, your 10K plus gap over my wage will always be that and in fact with payrises and increments will increase... I do not cry over this as I think you guys should be on more money for just what you know. However the point being I and the others just dont like being shafted by the Government!

[2896]

IMHO Military pension = granny's inheritance/stock market win

[maxdrypower]

Good god sid that was one seriously delayed response . You are quite right in what you say had all those things been applicable then yes I would be able to earn what you say . However as was pointed out I do not get rent allowance (Although when I joined I was told I was getting it). I have just reached the qual point for Competency payment and this year due to circumstances beyond my control, I do not get SPP .
Yes I could work O/T but you will not find many full time members of ASU's who do . Most O/T is divisional and ASU's are not part of operational divisions or their budgets therefore they are not offered the O/T the bobbies on the street are . Plus when you look at losing driving quals , self defence quals , not being up to date with procedures etc etc most ASU bobbies are not much use on an ad hoc basis .Nor do most of them wish to be .
As for th whole O/T thing how many other jobs can people be forced , yes forced to work O/T for no money or have their days off cancelled every weekend with ony a reallocated day to show for it which you can then never take as there are no staff to allow for it etc etc etc, ASU pilots and agreed pax go home at the end of their tour . Bobbies on the street very rarely do .
But as has been stated for what I do I believe the pay is ok . It is the way the Govt has shafted us up the ass with sand contaminated vaseline that takes the pxxx. In fact to reinforce the pxxx taking point when you guys are next at your unit , if you havent already seen it ask the crew to show you the Home Secs Xmas message to the police , although Im sure if youve been on duty this week you will already have seen the red faces and steamy ears
And HAPPY XMAS TO ALL PILOTS AND TALKING BAGGAGE BE SAFE

[bananaskiner]

SPP

Hmmm.

MaxDryPower, does that mean observers at your unit DO get SPP..??

Thats an interesting conumdrum then if some Chiefs decide we are worthy and some dont.? Yet we are all doing pretty much the same job

I wonder what the numbers are between units that do and units that dont..? And has anyone succesfuly turned a decision around.

[Skidkid]

maxdrypower

Yes I could work O/T but you will not find many full time members of ASU's who do

Perhaps you ought to ask for a transfer to volrider's unit

[volrider]

ah but the only O/T we get is when we are so hard up that we have to "dose" your crewmates tea so he goes off sick

[maxdrypower]

No Banana , Im a relief and normally work vehicle crime thats why I get SPP the full time members of the unit certainly dont get it . And as we have quite a few reliefs even if Tea is" Dosed " they still dont get O/T they just call a relief . Our Crew will never get SPP as long as it exists . But then thats another story isnt it , another govt led divisive scheme to make people unhappy ho hum .
Quick edit , does anyones unit get SPP?

[huntnhound]

Arent you still working just the one 10hr shift per day? or have you moved on from that? Surely the 24hrs a day, 7 days a week outfits should get the SSP? Arent they worthy of a small xmas bonus for working all those nights and weekends throughout the year

Hnh