Land fee extortion - is this a record?
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Land fee extortion - is this a record?
Remeber the recent thread about landing fees at htels etc?
How's this, found during an idle browsing moment:
http://www.walesrallygb.com/64_388.php
£1750 to operate in the restricted airspace around Rally Wales GB.
And I though the parking charges were a piss take....
MS
How's this, found during an idle browsing moment:
http://www.walesrallygb.com/64_388.php
£1750 to operate in the restricted airspace around Rally Wales GB.
And I though the parking charges were a piss take....
MS
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The way I read it was it gave you access to controlled airspace and the venue. There seem to be a selection of landing areas for various stages.
Bet you'll see Stobart's new 109 Grand there....
MS
Bet you'll see Stobart's new 109 Grand there....
MS
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If the pilot's been taught how to fly it by then.... 
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He seemed excited a couple of weeks back when he had lots of big books to read. Don't know if he posts here, so saying no more.
If they're stuck, I'll give it a go, can't be any harder than a camera, surely....
MS
If they're stuck, I'll give it a go, can't be any harder than a camera, surely....
MS
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That is the late payement fee, it was cheaper if you applied earlier , not much though !
The fee allows you to Land at the service area and various suggested landing sites around the routes, there is no limit on number, you also get identification numbers for the heli and have to attend the briefing tommorow.
Still expensive if you ask me!
And they will probably find out why the 109 is a great corporate machine , but rubbish at landing in wet, stump and bush infested forests !
The fee allows you to Land at the service area and various suggested landing sites around the routes, there is no limit on number, you also get identification numbers for the heli and have to attend the briefing tommorow.
Still expensive if you ask me!
And they will probably find out why the 109 is a great corporate machine , but rubbish at landing in wet, stump and bush infested forests !
MS,
The Stobart machine is flying this weekend with a freelance pilot. Main pilot is type rated but no IR so it was thought best to have an IR-rated pilot in Wales in November.
If you are flying in for the the three days, go to all the stages and scheduled service periods at least once, that is 25 landings. So each one costs £70 which is cheaper than Battersea, Silverstone and Ascot. Also the organiser is having to man more than one landing site.
Load up with passengers and make more than one trip and it's as cheap as chips!
FNW
The Stobart machine is flying this weekend with a freelance pilot. Main pilot is type rated but no IR so it was thought best to have an IR-rated pilot in Wales in November.
If you are flying in for the the three days, go to all the stages and scheduled service periods at least once, that is 25 landings. So each one costs £70 which is cheaper than Battersea, Silverstone and Ascot. Also the organiser is having to man more than one landing site.
Load up with passengers and make more than one trip and it's as cheap as chips!
FNW
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Cant see what use having an IR rated pilot would be ?
Well not if you are flying legally. the caa has put 600 AGL and 3KM vis as the minimums, as most of the stages are in the hills, if you can fly you within the CAA minimums there would be no need to
"This year, the CAA has created Restricted Areas (T) around the Rally sites, and only registered helicopters will have permission to enter. Please see AIC that will be issued shortly, and for AOC holders, FODCOM 29/2007. Weather limits inside the RA(T) will be a minimum of 600 ft agl cloudbase and 3 km visibility"
Well not if you are flying legally. the caa has put 600 AGL and 3KM vis as the minimums, as most of the stages are in the hills, if you can fly you within the CAA minimums there would be no need to
"This year, the CAA has created Restricted Areas (T) around the Rally sites, and only registered helicopters will have permission to enter. Please see AIC that will be issued shortly, and for AOC holders, FODCOM 29/2007. Weather limits inside the RA(T) will be a minimum of 600 ft agl cloudbase and 3 km visibility"
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MS,
The Stobart machine is flying this weekend with a freelance pilot. Main pilot is type rated but no IR so it was thought best to have an IR-rated pilot in Wales in November.
If you are flying in for the the three days, go to all the stages and scheduled service periods at least once, that is 25 landings. So each one costs £70 which is cheaper than Battersea, Silverstone and Ascot. Also the organiser is having to man more than one landing site.
Load up with passengers and make more than one trip and it's as cheap as chips!
FNW
The Stobart machine is flying this weekend with a freelance pilot. Main pilot is type rated but no IR so it was thought best to have an IR-rated pilot in Wales in November.
If you are flying in for the the three days, go to all the stages and scheduled service periods at least once, that is 25 landings. So each one costs £70 which is cheaper than Battersea, Silverstone and Ascot. Also the organiser is having to man more than one landing site.
Load up with passengers and make more than one trip and it's as cheap as chips!
FNW
A bit steep for a single bod in an R22 then
Not planning on being there myself, busy working elsewhere. Good luck to those going flying in the Welsh valleys.
MS
Hover,
Try and think out of the box!!
Its not just about flying around the restricted area, it could be bringing in the corporate guests who sponsor the sport and who would be unhappy if they can't even get to the staging area.
Or going for spares or picking up technicians...............or flying in the TRA, the weather closes in and then climbing up and recovering to Cardiff or Swansea.
MS.
What is the height limit on the TRA? Nothing to stop you watching from above if it is a nice day.
FNW
Try and think out of the box!!
Its not just about flying around the restricted area, it could be bringing in the corporate guests who sponsor the sport and who would be unhappy if they can't even get to the staging area.
Or going for spares or picking up technicians...............or flying in the TRA, the weather closes in and then climbing up and recovering to Cardiff or Swansea.
MS.
What is the height limit on the TRA? Nothing to stop you watching from above if it is a nice day.
FNW
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With the history of CAA inspectors operations on this event, I wouldnt suggest too much thinking outside the box!
TRA is between 4000 -3400 amsl , so I guess a WRC Ford Focus would look quite small.
And it is a fair flight to Cockermouth for spare parts
No need to bang your head, I am not disagreeing with you at all Just saying that I dont see the advantage of an IR rated pilot for this particular event, thats all!
The most worying thing for me would be the majority of the landing sites with a 109
TRA is between 4000 -3400 amsl , so I guess a WRC Ford Focus would look quite small.
And it is a fair flight to Cockermouth for spare parts
No need to bang your head, I am not disagreeing with you at all
Just saying that I dont see the advantage of an IR rated pilot for this particular event, thats all!The most worying thing for me would be the majority of the landing sites with a 109
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That's right, Eur1500 per machine for the Irish rally. There were 3 HAMSS sites and 34 (ish) discretionary landing sites around for the stages of the rally. Same scenario for the airspace, there were 3 TRAs in action in the Shannon FIR and 2 in the Scottish FIR. You had to be registered to use the TRAs.
Helimutt,
Have a look at where it is and look at a 1:500,000 map, you'd be surprised.
It's not just about following a rally car around the stages it is all the other stuff that goes on in the background during the rally and on the build-up and strip down.
It is beyond me why people can't see the wisdom of using an IR pilot in Wales in November at a high profile event for the teams and sponsors.
If you had the choice would you send out a brand new SPIFR machine out on it's first outing at a high profile event with a non-instrument rated pilot?
"Sorry Boss can't bring the bloke who gives us millions a year to run the team in from London as there's a bit of cloud in the way...........I'll get my coat!"
I would like to hear your justifications for not using an IR pilot rather than just dismissing it? It will give me an idea of your experience and mentality.
FNW
Have a look at where it is and look at a 1:500,000 map, you'd be surprised.
It's not just about following a rally car around the stages it is all the other stuff that goes on in the background during the rally and on the build-up and strip down.
It is beyond me why people can't see the wisdom of using an IR pilot in Wales in November at a high profile event for the teams and sponsors.
If you had the choice would you send out a brand new SPIFR machine out on it's first outing at a high profile event with a non-instrument rated pilot?
"Sorry Boss can't bring the bloke who gives us millions a year to run the team in from London as there's a bit of cloud in the way...........I'll get my coat!"
I would like to hear your justifications for not using an IR pilot rather than just dismissing it? It will give me an idea of your experience and mentality.
FNW
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FNW,
You win, but you are moving the goalposts a bit, originally we were talking about landing fees at WRCGB, which is based around the South Wales Valleys, now you are bringing in flights from London- But surely that is that is the same as the everyday operation of the aircraft ? So I guess they need a full time IR pilot (which by the way I totally agree with)!
And I most certainly wouldnt want to use a brand new Grand (bet they wish they had the explorer back just for this weekend)on the WRCGB in the first place, wheeled aircraft are not the best for the job, a few years ago Jeremy did talk about not allowing them , as the sites didnt lend themselves at all well, but I guess it is operator beware. and before anybody starts talking about wheels versus skids , I fly a 109 !
My only experience of WRCGB is doing the event 7 times, and operating in and out of various forests fairly regularly, for tests and rallies etc.
You win, but you are moving the goalposts a bit, originally we were talking about landing fees at WRCGB, which is based around the South Wales Valleys, now you are bringing in flights from London- But surely that is that is the same as the everyday operation of the aircraft ? So I guess they need a full time IR pilot (which by the way I totally agree with)!
And I most certainly wouldnt want to use a brand new Grand (bet they wish they had the explorer back just for this weekend)on the WRCGB in the first place, wheeled aircraft are not the best for the job, a few years ago Jeremy did talk about not allowing them , as the sites didnt lend themselves at all well, but I guess it is operator beware. and before anybody starts talking about wheels versus skids , I fly a 109 !
My only experience of WRCGB is doing the event 7 times, and operating in and out of various forests fairly regularly, for tests and rallies etc.
Hover,
I agree we have drifted a bit from the original thread. I was just answering the question of the Stobart machine and it escalated.
I think Stobarts (well the pilots) realise that the wheels will be a problem and may stop them landing in some sites.
As for the cost, flying in for one day is very expensive but as demonstrated three days flying isn't too bad. I think the organisers want the facility for the teams but don't want the headache of a Silverstone heliport with large numbers of passengers. Trouble is the requirements laid down for the helipad are the same for one passenger or 100 passengers.
Probadly see you round the usual events in our M reg S76 or A109s. (We too get two Grands to play with next year).
FNW
I agree we have drifted a bit from the original thread. I was just answering the question of the Stobart machine and it escalated.
I think Stobarts (well the pilots) realise that the wheels will be a problem and may stop them landing in some sites.
As for the cost, flying in for one day is very expensive but as demonstrated three days flying isn't too bad. I think the organisers want the facility for the teams but don't want the headache of a Silverstone heliport with large numbers of passengers. Trouble is the requirements laid down for the helipad are the same for one passenger or 100 passengers.
Probadly see you round the usual events in our M reg S76 or A109s. (We too get two Grands to play with next year).
FNW
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If you look at the RAT (tra) it actually extends over the north devon coast!!!
So there you are pottering along the coast with the severn estuary out of one window and its going to cost you £1750.
The CAA adviser is none other than Jeremy James, the Helicopter club chappy.
So there you are pottering along the coast with the severn estuary out of one window and its going to cost you £1750.
The CAA adviser is none other than Jeremy James, the Helicopter club chappy.
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If the weather continues the way it has so far, no one will get closer to the stages than the Cardiff Heliport - No chance of a refund I imagine 
A bit too close to charging for airspace use for my taste. Also no ATC or other costs associated with that airspace either.
A bit too close to charging for airspace use for my taste. Also no ATC or other costs associated with that airspace either.
