Cockpit video of EMS helicopter landing at accident
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Cockpit video of EMS helicopter landing at accident
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It is rather difficult to see where he was exactly in relation to the avoid range if at all. You could not judge approach angle nor see the indicated airspeed. Besides the avoid curve is just that. You try to avoid it however there are some aspects where you cannot. You just use your best judgment to minimize the time there when possible and plan for ways out if things do not go as planned. It appeared to be a smooth approach.
Jerry
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Landing to an unprepared scene like that, the last thing you worry about is engine failure. The most likely thing to hurt you is wires or other unseen obstacles. The standard procedure is to make the approach very slowly, so you can stop if you see wires that are close. You can never trust the fire/police/other people on the scene to have seen and marked all the wires and obstacles. Making fast, shallow approaches to accident scenes will, sooner or later, hurt you.
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"
I do hope you are not the HEMS pilot flying me to the hospital 
I was always taught to expect an engine failure at any time during take-off or landing. If it then happens you are not taken by surprise. You are totally prepared to fly the appropriate OEI profile and not add to the death and destruction on the ground. A seconds hesitation could mean the difference between life and death.
Landing to an unprepared scene like that, the last thing you worry about is engine failure".
I was always taught to expect an engine failure at any time during take-off or landing. If it then happens you are not taken by surprise. You are totally prepared to fly the appropriate OEI profile and not add to the death and destruction on the ground. A seconds hesitation could mean the difference between life and death.
Purge, when you are flying a single engine aircraft like the one in the video, the OEI profile is called AUTOROTATION.
and to the ground you are going to go, more or less smoothly.
Someone above pretty much spelled it right, slow approach with no more than 300'/min rate of descent for the last 200' AND a stabilized approach to minimize the danger of VRS onset and give you plenty time to manouvre (as in go around) in case of unexpected obstacles.
and to the ground you are going to go, more or less smoothly.Someone above pretty much spelled it right, slow approach with no more than 300'/min rate of descent for the last 200' AND a stabilized approach to minimize the danger of VRS onset and give you plenty time to manouvre (as in go around) in case of unexpected obstacles.
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I am always amazed by the prominence people give to the possibility of an engine failure, sometimes to the exclusion of considering any other risk.
Once and for all, people: engine failure -in a well maintained and inspected aircraft- can be safely put at or near the bottom of your list of concerns.
Far more important are things like collision, wire strikes, weather, fatigue, CFIT etc. etc. Please, stop harping about engine failures -they hardly figure at all in accident statistics.
(Before anyone goes off on me: I'm not saying you shouldn't know what to do if the engine ever decides to throw in the towel; just that you would do well to make other safety concerns -human factors chief among them- your priority).
Once and for all, people: engine failure -in a well maintained and inspected aircraft- can be safely put at or near the bottom of your list of concerns.
Far more important are things like collision, wire strikes, weather, fatigue, CFIT etc. etc. Please, stop harping about engine failures -they hardly figure at all in accident statistics.
(Before anyone goes off on me: I'm not saying you shouldn't know what to do if the engine ever decides to throw in the towel; just that you would do well to make other safety concerns -human factors chief among them- your priority).
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For sure. When landing off airport, out on a scene like that, you should keep it "nice and slow". Wires and obstacles are much more of a threat in that kind of environment than the hypotethical engine failure.
"Just a pilot"
Started flying 40 years ago, and I've had:
2 engine failures;
2 drive train failures;
And a control linkage failure.
Lots of "interesting" experiences, but the excitement occurs, on average, 1 event a year.
On the other hand, I'm in my seventh year of EMS, and I'm surprised and scared about once a week doing scene landings. Wires, signs, posts, rails, curbs, people, parts, trash, bodies, emergency crews and their equipment, rubberneckers, planning the approach and departure tracks, positioning the aircraft for efficiency and safety- these are things that are much higher priority and may present more immediate risk than an engine failure. Not to mention planning for the unfortunate potential that the aircraft might have to stay on the scene (The peace officer's smile is obviously an effort as he directs traffic around my busted bird).
Read the reports. For every power failure, you'll see hundreds- if not thousands- of non-power failure mishaps for every power failure incident- Avoid the more likely hazard. Yes, I fly to keep a survivable forced landing area to hand. But, I'll hang on the engine for a minute or two to be be safe, slow and careful in the final descent. It's a lot like combat priorities- if you stand to take hits flying a normal approach, it's less safe to do so.
2 engine failures;
2 drive train failures;
And a control linkage failure.
Lots of "interesting" experiences, but the excitement occurs, on average, 1 event a year.
On the other hand, I'm in my seventh year of EMS, and I'm surprised and scared about once a week doing scene landings. Wires, signs, posts, rails, curbs, people, parts, trash, bodies, emergency crews and their equipment, rubberneckers, planning the approach and departure tracks, positioning the aircraft for efficiency and safety- these are things that are much higher priority and may present more immediate risk than an engine failure. Not to mention planning for the unfortunate potential that the aircraft might have to stay on the scene (The peace officer's smile is obviously an effort as he directs traffic around my busted bird).
Read the reports. For every power failure, you'll see hundreds- if not thousands- of non-power failure mishaps for every power failure incident- Avoid the more likely hazard. Yes, I fly to keep a survivable forced landing area to hand. But, I'll hang on the engine for a minute or two to be be safe, slow and careful in the final descent. It's a lot like combat priorities- if you stand to take hits flying a normal approach, it's less safe to do so.
Last edited by Devil 49; 25th Nov 2007 at 21:16.
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Purge, when you are flying a single engine aircraft like the one in the video, the OEI profile is called AUTOROTATION. and to the ground you are going to go, more or less smoothly.
From what I have gathered from this thread, I can now fly low and slow in the S300c as the engine won't quit on me
Isn't it illegal to fly single engine at night commercially
I only ask as the cars have their lights on. You can tell it is dusk as the cars are heading out of town. It will most certainly have been night once he/she had finished loading the injured and flown them to Hospital.
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Purge, nobody said you should fly low and slow just for the fun of it. As stated earlier it's a matter of priorities and risk management.
Of course you should avoid the shaded areas in the H/V diagram if you can. However, sometimes you have to operate within the curve in order to carry out your mission.
As for your question regarding SE commercial ops at night. The video is from the US - yes, it is legal there.
Of course you should avoid the shaded areas in the H/V diagram if you can. However, sometimes you have to operate within the curve in order to carry out your mission.
As for your question regarding SE commercial ops at night. The video is from the US - yes, it is legal there.
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Flying helicopters is about prioritising risks and hopefully controlling the aircraft to achieve the lowest risk for the immediate future. At this phase of flight the avoid curve is pretty low on the list and some would argue it doesnt apply at all. I know nothing about HEMS but it looked pretty good to me.
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Purge,
Its called risk management.
Some national authorities are obsessed with engine failure, apparently pretty much to the exclusion of anything else. and that tends to distort some pilots' perceptions. However it is not a balanced way to look at things. Frequently, the risks of other things are much more significant.
Its called risk management.
Some national authorities are obsessed with engine failure, apparently pretty much to the exclusion of anything else. and that tends to distort some pilots' perceptions. However it is not a balanced way to look at things. Frequently, the risks of other things are much more significant.