homonculus

The story I heard was that Robinson changed to a water based primer some time ago. Aircraft built before the change seem to be OK but I know of several owners with problems on fairly new machines.

TiPwEiGhT

I agree with the above. I have similar problems with tailcones and stabs, also around some of the rivits on the main fuel tank. Not handy!

delta3

I also agree,

Raven I (until 06/2005) no problem,
Raven II, already corrosion spots, most in the tail fin and cone.

Always hangared.

d3

206dvr

Thanks for bringing this up guys. I was looking to get a second smaller machine as a spray ship. The R44 was near the top of the list as a docile spray ship for a low time pilot. But now I will be taking them off the list all together. Maybe old technology is the way to go "If it seems to good to be true it probably is" rings true here I think. I hear amazing things about how cheap they are to run but the costs come round to bite you in the bum latter.

Nicolas Rehbein

As an owner of an immaculate R44 Clipper 2 I have to confess to being disturbed by the excessive amount of unplanned maintenance.New clutch actuator,New hydraulics,new clutch switchs(3),New hydraulic jacks.Replacement gearbox mountings 7 starter motors maybe 6 my ability to count is being eroded and finally three sets of ring gear. Latest theory by maintainer is that the pilots are to blame .Odd theory that one because we run an additional Clipper with no such problems and the same group of pilots .My car starts perfectly everytime never had a starter motor replaced . Oh and what about Robinsons Warranty !! Thats a real corker . Any body want A two year old machine with 500 hours and a starter motor poltergeist .I am losing the will to live

anti-talk

mmmm - familiar story
We have 4 R44's - one Raven II that has consistently eaten starters and accordingly taken out ring gear.
3 so far have actually cracked the cases (one within 20hrs of installation), substandard manufacture I guess (we have also installed 6 in 700hrs on a 2007 ship).

I think it has a lot to do with poor design coupled with poor starting technique.

The student starts the aircraft with the starter button and as the engine catches they push in the mixture but fail to let go of the starter button - causing the gear to drag on the ring gear - and consequently damage it.

The other scenario is a hot aircraft that has been overprimed and wont start, the student cycles the motor for 3 or 4 secs multiple times to start it the battery runs out of power and hey presto ring gear wrecked with a hung up gear. Our machine is a pig to start when hot.

Not withstanding the fact that the starters draw huge amounts of current and the batteries cant cope with extended draw - its very difficult in a training environment to avoid damage.

Our Raven II has also proved to be far more fragile than our Raven I's in many other areas. The RII is an expensive machine (relatively speaking!!) for a flight school to operate - the older Raven I's are pretty much bomb and student proof.

The RII list of new parts installed in 700 hrs is quite simply amazing where one of Raven I's has had nothing but plugs,filters, fluids and other normal preventative maintenance parts such as mags etc and one Alternator in 800 hours!

Nicolas Rehbein

very interesting!the problem with the latest ring gear is a 6" strip has been taken out of the ring gear by the starter by a professional pilot who not only trains on the 44 but flies it commercially.This ring gear and starter were replaced only 6 flying hours (6 starts) after the last lot. All sounds a wee bit fragile to me .We've got the teeth to prove it.

500e

Sounds like someone wants to sink them into Robinson
They were all under warranty I expect

mikelimapapa

Sounds like a recurring theme here....we operate a Raven I and have gone thru 3 starters and a ring gear in the first 500hrs

Heli-phile

Is this a problem with Robinsons build or are these parts provided by lycoming??
Occasionally happens with fixed wing starters but never heard it so consistantly.

Clyde Parthangel

I have just had the tail rotor gearbox replaced. Engineers are baffled...they say it is making a horrible noise but otherwise seems OK. They have now boxed it up and sent it off to Torrance with a note saying ' please take this apart and when you find out what is wrong, let us know.'
Does anybody know of any other R44 tailrotor gearbox probs....or has one of my self-fly hires been ham fisted??

helipan

We also have a R44 which is chewing starters, 5 starters & 3 times the ring gear, interesting comments from all.....but we are now working on a magneto promblem in the retard timing.....!!! not sure what this means any one got any idea??

JimBall

When a pilot has a failed start, there is an impatience sets in. This means they fire the starter again before the motor has finished its first cycle. And that's what buggers the teeth and the gear.

If the start fails, wait until you hear the motor has stopped running. And never start with your headset on your ears.

CRAZYBROADSWORD

have been flying 4 differant clipper 2's without probs maybe i have been lucky? try starting with the mixture aleady in they should start much better and only prime a hot machine for a split second, a hot machine sounds dif when you start it just hold button for a couple of secs and then let go.

ShyTorque

If an impulse magneto isn't working correctly at low rotational speed (i.e. retarded), it is possibly causing a "kickback" when the engine fires too early in the stroke. This will put a very large strain on the ring gear and starter motor.

Nicolas Rehbein

latest ring gear debacle new one fitted last Friday.judged as needing replacement yesterday (Tuesday).11 starts in total including 4 during maintenance.Starter motor ok though.So thats now three sets of ring gear and two starters in three weeks anybody beat that.Yippee Guinness book of records here we come.Home management very unhappy with the cost

jemax

This bleedin thread has put a curse on me, all was fine in my R44 Raven II life until I read this. I was flying an R44 on behalf of the owner and it is now stranded in his back garden with a jammed starter motor.

It's getting electrical power to it, but there is no movment of the starter motor when start is attempted. It appears they are now fitting upgraded starter motors as a replacement.

Only 1 year old and 65 hours. Ring gear seems OK.

After some digging it appears to be a common problem.

Nicolas Rehbein

Replacement motor probably the old type B and C. New type fitted on mine to start with is apparently designed to disintegrate before damaging the ring gear- Least expensive option. Old style B and C bit gutsier chews up ring gear Methinks Robinson needs to go back to the drawing board and redesign .All very well cutting down the cost of production and presumably weight but at what cost to owners and RHC reputation. Hope you get it started and out of the garden without resorting to the tow truck

scooter boy

Hi Nicolas,
Please tell us more, for example:
Is the aircraft used for training?
How experienced are the group members?
How often do they fly?

IMHO the major downside of group ownership is that aircraft reliability is only as good as the least experienced group member.

SB - R44 Clipper II 570hrs from new (all by me) kept at home in private hangar, no major maintenance issues (except useless maintenance company - see my previous post).

Shawn Coyle

Is there a way for UK operators to send in the equivalent of Service Difficulty Reports?
How about the HAI maintenance recording system, whatever that's called?
If this is a recurring problem someone in an authority ought to know about it. (although from a safety standpoint, if you can't start, you can't fly, and that safe...)