Eurocopter South Africa after sales non existent
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Eurocopter South Africa after sales non existent
I don't know about Eurocopter branches around the rest of the world, but Eurcopter South Africa's after sales really sucks. Here I'm sitting in middel Africa with a brand new AS350B2 with just over 400hrs TT and I can't get Eurocopter to send an engineer to do a normal 100hr MPI.
I've been trying to get them here for the past 2 weeks. We have notified them about this MPI about a month ago. Now that it is due they wanted copies of a certified AMO and a letter from that AMO stating they give Eurocopter permission to do the MPI there. The only hangar I could get with those permissions is the military hangar. All of the sudden that is not good enough for Eurocopter. They won't do it in a military hangar because it is not a certified civilian AMO.
I just get the feeling they don't want to help us anymore. They were very quick to sell you the helicopter but their after sales is non existent. The previous time we sent the helicopter in for a 100hr MPI it took almost 2 weeks for it to come out. They kept on making different excuses.
I get the same complaints from all the other customers. How can one get them to be a bit more efficient?
I really don't even understand why they want it because they won't be working under the AMO's licence we need to acquire. So if there is anyone out there that knows of a certified civilian AMO close to Pointe Noire please let me know.
I've been trying to get them here for the past 2 weeks. We have notified them about this MPI about a month ago. Now that it is due they wanted copies of a certified AMO and a letter from that AMO stating they give Eurocopter permission to do the MPI there. The only hangar I could get with those permissions is the military hangar. All of the sudden that is not good enough for Eurocopter. They won't do it in a military hangar because it is not a certified civilian AMO.
I just get the feeling they don't want to help us anymore. They were very quick to sell you the helicopter but their after sales is non existent. The previous time we sent the helicopter in for a 100hr MPI it took almost 2 weeks for it to come out. They kept on making different excuses.
I get the same complaints from all the other customers. How can one get them to be a bit more efficient?
I really don't even understand why they want it because they won't be working under the AMO's licence we need to acquire. So if there is anyone out there that knows of a certified civilian AMO close to Pointe Noire please let me know.
Last edited by Choppie; 25th Oct 2007 at 22:53.
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How can one get them to be a bit more efficient?
Easy, sell it and buy a Bell or the Agusta. Mind you it will be difficult to sell as is where is seeing as it's technically TIMEX!!
Easy, sell it and buy a Bell or the Agusta. Mind you it will be difficult to sell as is where is seeing as it's technically TIMEX!!
Depending on how you view it of course!
EC is probably an AMO with a Part 145 certificate (or equivalent) which probably precludes them from doing Scheduled maintenance in the field (under a tree perhaps or near enough anyway).
Just "sending an engineer" is not what it takes. From their point of view, you knew the maintenance was coming up, and it is up to you to take responsibility for how the aircraft is maintained.
Do you have a maintenance contract with them?
Personally, from the information you have put forward, I have no sympathy for your complaints.
EC is probably an AMO with a Part 145 certificate (or equivalent) which probably precludes them from doing Scheduled maintenance in the field (under a tree perhaps or near enough anyway).
Just "sending an engineer" is not what it takes. From their point of view, you knew the maintenance was coming up, and it is up to you to take responsibility for how the aircraft is maintained.
Do you have a maintenance contract with them?
Personally, from the information you have put forward, I have no sympathy for your complaints.
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The last time we had them send engineers up for the maintenance it was done outside on the one side of the airfield. We then just pulled the helicopter into a hangar for the night to finish the next day. They were perfectly happy with that. Now all of the sudden they need an approved maintenance facility. What is the difference between then and now? Now I have even got a hangar where other aircraft are being maintained, but it's not a CAA approved facility. If they told us that from the start we wouldn't have been in this situation. Luckily I've got enough hours left on the helicopter to fly to Luanda or Libreville.
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Well
One might ask, why you are anywhere without engineering support for your aircraft in the form of your own licensed engineer.
What do you do if you get a gen light or some other routine discrepancy requiring an inspection and tech log sign off.
What do you do if you get a gen light or some other routine discrepancy requiring an inspection and tech log sign off.
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Bummer. My understanding is that this situation is the result of new SACAA regs. Maybe someone over on the African Forum could confirm for you whether or not this is the case?
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It is a CAA requirement to only perform maintenance at a CAA approved facility. However, it is also accepted that a lot of helo's in Africa work in countries where there is no such facilities. My argument has always been that it is not always possible to do the ideal(CAA approved hangar/ferry machine 10hrs+ to such facility), but surely there must be a safe alternative not forcing the operator to get desperate or compromise safety. Having been in the situation quite a few times, I have always found a legal solution with the assistance of the CAA. It is up to the AMO however to engage in upfront planning to accommodate it. Having worked on the Squirrel for a while, I do not understand why a 100hr should take anything more than a day for 2 engineers bar snags. If it is a 200hr-add 2 hrs for the swashplate check. These machines are build for the field and with a bit of attention and TLC every now and again, they will go on and on and on.............. Very sad that this magificent helicopter is compromised by the lack of respect for it by it's own manufacturer in not showing enough willingness to support it.
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Very sad that this magificent helicopter is compromised by the lack of respect for it by it's own manufacturer in not showing enough willingness to support it.
Just out of curiostiy how does Agusta compare, say if you were running A119's when it comes to spares/service ?
Are they ridiculously more expensive to operate/maintain over a B3? (sorry to drift the thread here)
Are they ridiculously more expensive to operate/maintain over a B3? (sorry to drift the thread here)
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I have not operated with the 119 but have Bell and Sikorsky experience enough to regocnise I am way to lazy an engineer for all those screws! I like the clip on and clip off, quickly check this, quickly assemble etc. Our company is currently on Agusta's hot list. The 119 seems a solid machine, but it does love it's fuel and the fuel nozzles on a Pilatus is bad enough to check-did it once on a 212 and it was enough to make me dream of Arriel 2's.
Support wise there is NO comparison. Agusta seems to have abundance of spares and available aircraft and from other operators I believe they honour there sales talk. Eurocopter we know.
However, I love the Squirrel and it's Arriels. Especially the B3 with the 600hr servicing on the engine. If it makes a noise and the blades turn-you are good to go!!!(especially with the 2 hydraulic systems fitted)No fancy systems.
Why is it so difficult to keep the handful of spares required in stock for supporting the Squirrel????????
Support wise there is NO comparison. Agusta seems to have abundance of spares and available aircraft and from other operators I believe they honour there sales talk. Eurocopter we know.
However, I love the Squirrel and it's Arriels. Especially the B3 with the 600hr servicing on the engine. If it makes a noise and the blades turn-you are good to go!!!(especially with the 2 hydraulic systems fitted)No fancy systems.
Why is it so difficult to keep the handful of spares required in stock for supporting the Squirrel????????
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Is it really up to Eurocopter?
SA Civil Aviation Technical Standards – General Maintenance Rules 43.02.08
1. General
(6) Maintenance away from base may only be performed at an approved AMO or at a facility approved by the Commissioner where equipment, test facilities and spares for the type of maintenance to be undertaken are available. All the necessary manuals and catalogues for the particular aircraft shall be available. Prior to the commencement of such maintenance, the AMO or facility shall advise the Commissioner of its intention to carry out the maintenance and supply the following information:
(a) Aircraft registration.
(b) Name of the organisation to carry out the maintenance, and approvals held.
(c) Location where the intended maintenance is to be performed.
(d) Type of maintenance to be carried out.
(e) Name and licence or approval number(s) of the person(s) responsible for the maintenance.
(8) Failure to comply with any applicable mandatory requirement or part of a maintenance schedule invalidates the validity of the aircraft’s certificate of airworthiness unless exemption has been obtained from the Commissioner in terms of Part 11 of the CAR.
1. General
(6) Maintenance away from base may only be performed at an approved AMO or at a facility approved by the Commissioner where equipment, test facilities and spares for the type of maintenance to be undertaken are available. All the necessary manuals and catalogues for the particular aircraft shall be available. Prior to the commencement of such maintenance, the AMO or facility shall advise the Commissioner of its intention to carry out the maintenance and supply the following information:
(a) Aircraft registration.
(b) Name of the organisation to carry out the maintenance, and approvals held.
(c) Location where the intended maintenance is to be performed.
(d) Type of maintenance to be carried out.
(e) Name and licence or approval number(s) of the person(s) responsible for the maintenance.
(8) Failure to comply with any applicable mandatory requirement or part of a maintenance schedule invalidates the validity of the aircraft’s certificate of airworthiness unless exemption has been obtained from the Commissioner in terms of Part 11 of the CAR.
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Exactly why I said with a bit of dedication and immediate response to the request, the maintenance can be done without a problem. The requirements are basic and can easily be satisfied for the benefit of Eurocopter and the operator. It does require a commitment from all parties involved. I have never had a problem with the CAA adhering to their requirements. Remember, you can say what you want about EC, but the OPEN CD/DVD's makes it easy to have all the relevant airworthiness data available. Add to that a filter and o-ring or 2, bit of grease 8 and 22, torque wrench, locking wire and a split pin and tie wrap or 2 and you completed a 100hr. Unless there is snags and the SB status is way behind, a flatscrew driver, 7+8+10+13+14+19 spanner/socket, side cutter and waterpump plier and stand to stand on for the blades you are just about sorted. Protection from wheather is a additional CAA requirement which is easily satisfied.
Morale of the story-should be no reason for a Squirrel to stand anywhere waiting for a 100hr safety inspection
Morale of the story-should be no reason for a Squirrel to stand anywhere waiting for a 100hr safety inspection
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That was my understanding of it all.
If away from base maintenance is being done then the CAA want to see a picture of the hangar and the info as posted by Colibri-one and once those requirements are met satisfactorily then CAA are happy.
The AMO doing the maintenance then assumes resposibility for the check and all associated nausea, as it should be.
If we start pulling the ring out of this then the CAA will get to the point where they say NO and then the complaining wil really start on here.
If away from base maintenance is being done then the CAA want to see a picture of the hangar and the info as posted by Colibri-one and once those requirements are met satisfactorily then CAA are happy.
The AMO doing the maintenance then assumes resposibility for the check and all associated nausea, as it should be.
If we start pulling the ring out of this then the CAA will get to the point where they say NO and then the complaining wil really start on here.
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Maintenance away from base may only be performed at an approved AMO
So why do so many operators do their maintenance in the bush (under a tree)? I'm sure they're not doing it illegally otherwise insurance would be quite an issue.
unless exemption has been obtained from the Commissioner in terms of Part 11 of the CAR.
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Choppie, surely all the maintenance arrangements would have been in place before you came north wouldn't they. If not, then its a matter you need to take up with your planning folks rather than dumping on an apparently un-contracted maintenance outfit.
