New CHC S-92
Slightly confused as this thread says "S-92" in the title. For info BHL's next EC225s will be a little heavier, probably much the same as CHCs, due to ACAS, TAWS, homer, FM, better soundproofing, provision for aircon etc. As Hugh says, we currently have some payload we can't use (19 + baggage + full fuel is still below MTOW) so we might as well fill it up with some toys!
HC
HC
Howcanwebeexpectedtoflylikeeagles
whensurroundedbyturkeys
I forgot the homer - luckily haven't had needed to use it yet.
The inflight MP3 music system will be good when ECF get the WiFi approved.
The inflight MP3 music system will be good when ECF get the WiFi approved.
Where standard weights are used, it's 196 lb for male adults with survival gear. Some client require the use of actual weights, in which case the average pax weight would be used for c of g calculations.
Aircraft like the 225, 92 and 332 generally don't have an issue with c of g, and standard loading configurations are used to avoid having to make such calculations. Smaller types such as the 76 and 155 are more critical and, commonly, a PDA or similar is used to do the calculations in flight.
Aircraft like the 225, 92 and 332 generally don't have an issue with c of g, and standard loading configurations are used to avoid having to make such calculations. Smaller types such as the 76 and 155 are more critical and, commonly, a PDA or similar is used to do the calculations in flight.
212man,
I think 196 lbs has changed to 216 lbs as standard weights for male passengers (170lbs for females).
It must have something to do with the Scottish diet of deep fried mars bars & pizza.
Just out of interest what standard weights do you use in your neck of the woods?
Greetings,
Finalchecksplease
I think 196 lbs has changed to 216 lbs as standard weights for male passengers (170lbs for females).
It must have something to do with the Scottish diet of deep fried mars bars & pizza.
Just out of interest what standard weights do you use in your neck of the woods?
Greetings,
Finalchecksplease
just had a look at the ANO and it seems to imply it's now 209 lb (92Kg + 3kg for suit.) Oh well, obviously not 196 lb anymore.
We use actual weights, as indeed do all Shell ops I believe.
We use actual weights, as indeed do all Shell ops I believe.
That's Life!!
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HC, I always thought the lifejackets were included in the ZFW calcs, and could be removed if seats were taken out, i.e. xx seats=xx Ljs. Are they now included in pax weight? If so, is this because different clients may use different styles of Ljs?
SV you make a very valid point! FODCOM 27/2005 is the source of the change to standard weights. It says:
For adult males this will be 98 kg and for females it will be 77 kg. These figures include a 3 kg allowance for an immersion suit and associated safety equipment.
I take "associated safety equipment" to mean the lifejackets/airpockets but as you rightly say, these are also included in the DOM/ZFW (and have to be since 19 or 20 are carried regardless of the number of passengers carried). So it looks as though we count the lifejacket/airpocket twice. In practice however, they don't weigh very much so perhaps overall its not a big deal?
HC
For adult males this will be 98 kg and for females it will be 77 kg. These figures include a 3 kg allowance for an immersion suit and associated safety equipment.
I take "associated safety equipment" to mean the lifejackets/airpockets but as you rightly say, these are also included in the DOM/ZFW (and have to be since 19 or 20 are carried regardless of the number of passengers carried). So it looks as though we count the lifejacket/airpocket twice. In practice however, they don't weigh very much so perhaps overall its not a big deal?
HC
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Talking of weights, any truth that the EC225 has a disposable load approaching 450Kgs (1000lbs) greater than that of the North Sea modded S92s?
Have heard that the S92s cannot carry a full payload and full fuel unlike the EC225s of BHL and CHC based on comments from HC and HM.
Have heard that the S92s cannot carry a full payload and full fuel unlike the EC225s of BHL and CHC based on comments from HC and HM.
Limpopo
Yes, that's true however its both important and difficult to compare like with like. The 92s have RIPS, aircon(?) and an APU whereas the 225 do not.
However the 92 needs RIPS whereas the 225 does not in practice need the EC equivalent in the N Sea, the 92 has an APU as standard and you can't start the engines without one, whereas the 225 only needs APU to keep the cabin cool before start in VIP machines. And aircon is a nice-to-have on those 3 days a year when its hot on the ground, but no use once you are airborne.
So if you wanted to be nasty to Sky you could say that yes the 225 has 1000lbs more payload. If you wanted to be nasty to EC you could say that a 225 of the same spec as a 92 only has about 200lbs more payload.
Or you could be simplistic and say that both aircraft do pretty much the same job and the 225 has an extra 1000lbs which means its ability to carry 19 is never an issue, which is not the case for the 92. This is my preferred answer
HC
Yes, that's true however its both important and difficult to compare like with like. The 92s have RIPS, aircon(?) and an APU whereas the 225 do not.
However the 92 needs RIPS whereas the 225 does not in practice need the EC equivalent in the N Sea, the 92 has an APU as standard and you can't start the engines without one, whereas the 225 only needs APU to keep the cabin cool before start in VIP machines. And aircon is a nice-to-have on those 3 days a year when its hot on the ground, but no use once you are airborne.
So if you wanted to be nasty to Sky you could say that yes the 225 has 1000lbs more payload. If you wanted to be nasty to EC you could say that a 225 of the same spec as a 92 only has about 200lbs more payload.
Or you could be simplistic and say that both aircraft do pretty much the same job and the 225 has an extra 1000lbs which means its ability to carry 19 is never an issue, which is not the case for the 92. This is my preferred answer
HC
Awsome aircraft that 225, can't wait to see one painted up in bonds colours..
HC, (just being nosey and curious here) was there alot of work involved transitioning over to the 225 from the 332L2 which i presume you done yourself?
Cheers Dave..
HC, (just being nosey and curious here) was there alot of work involved transitioning over to the 225 from the 332L2 which i presume you done yourself?
Cheers Dave..
Davy07
No, its pretty straightforward to move up to the 225 - after all its a variant and only a differences course... EC recommended only 5 hrs to go from L2 to 225, but that worked out OK, plus a non-rev line check.
You will recognise the philosophy and concepts for the screens from the L2, but on the 225 all those annoyances on the L2 have been done away with - its really a very easy aircraft to operate. Just a few problems eg the button that was used to select OEI HI/LO on the L2 is the one that selects OEI CT on the 225 (yes, there is a third OEI FADEC stop on the 225) and the forward button under the collective is the one for OEI HI/LO. I found that was the hardest part and just kept pressing all the buttons including the windscreen wipers until I found the right one! That was my excuse anyway
You will find the "user interface" including the autopilot takes another step up of about the same size as the step from 332L to L2. Even manual flying is easier. Enjoy...
HC
No, its pretty straightforward to move up to the 225 - after all its a variant and only a differences course... EC recommended only 5 hrs to go from L2 to 225, but that worked out OK, plus a non-rev line check.
You will recognise the philosophy and concepts for the screens from the L2, but on the 225 all those annoyances on the L2 have been done away with - its really a very easy aircraft to operate. Just a few problems eg the button that was used to select OEI HI/LO on the L2 is the one that selects OEI CT on the 225 (yes, there is a third OEI FADEC stop on the 225) and the forward button under the collective is the one for OEI HI/LO. I found that was the hardest part and just kept pressing all the buttons including the windscreen wipers until I found the right one! That was my excuse anyway
You will find the "user interface" including the autopilot takes another step up of about the same size as the step from 332L to L2. Even manual flying is easier. Enjoy...
HC
Ah cool cheers for that.. Not a pilot yet myself but did visit bond in jan past, sat up in their L2, was very surprised at how small the cabin is in them, im a tall lad thou but i did treasure that few mins sitting up in it
Cheers D
Cheers D
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Or you could be simplistic and say that both aircraft do pretty much the same job and the 225 has an extra 1000lbs which means its ability to carry 19 is never an issue, which is not the case for the 92.
Think of the poor S92 that has been lanquishing under tarpaulins in the open thoughout this cold northern Chinese winter. When China General took delivery with a great fanfare last autumn to operate in the Bo Hai bay area they forgot one minor detail. None of the decks are stressed for more than 8.6 tonnes.
