construction cranes helpful?
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construction cranes helpful?
Hi guys
Iīve noticed that the modern cranes at construction sites position themselves into wind when it is strong enough. However, eventhough Iīve asked the workers and contracters, nobody seems to know for sure the exact figures, i.e., how strong the wind has to be in order for the crane to move, and if they always point with the same end into wind, or do they just line up with the wind, making it a tail or head wind, depending the position they happen to be when the wind starts picking up.
I wondered if any of you have "mastered" the use of this cranes to asses the surface wind in any of your missions, and whether they could be another clue about where the f**k is our friend Eolo coming from (or is he going to?).
Why wind reminds me of women?. Is not as HE doesnīt change his mind when we fancies, nor that he can take us further and higher when he is in the mood for it, or make us crash when heīs having a bad day (and you didnīt ask him why the long face....). And obviously we canīt live with him but neither we can without.
I canīt wait for your answers
Fly safe!
b
Iīve noticed that the modern cranes at construction sites position themselves into wind when it is strong enough. However, eventhough Iīve asked the workers and contracters, nobody seems to know for sure the exact figures, i.e., how strong the wind has to be in order for the crane to move, and if they always point with the same end into wind, or do they just line up with the wind, making it a tail or head wind, depending the position they happen to be when the wind starts picking up.
I wondered if any of you have "mastered" the use of this cranes to asses the surface wind in any of your missions, and whether they could be another clue about where the f**k is our friend Eolo coming from (or is he going to?).
Why wind reminds me of women?. Is not as HE doesnīt change his mind when we fancies, nor that he can take us further and higher when he is in the mood for it, or make us crash when heīs having a bad day (and you didnīt ask him why the long face....). And obviously we canīt live with him but neither we can without.
I canīt wait for your answers
Fly safe!
b
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I only look at a crane to make sure it's out of the way, and the only possible use it could have for wind information is if it has a flag on top. The flag will act as a windsock, and that's useful. I would never, in my wildest dreams, depend on a crane's position for wind information. They point, IME, wherever they need to in order to get the work done, and I've never heard of them being pointed into the wind. If they stay in the wind, how do they get any work done? And if the wind is high enough to force them to park, then I already know pretty well what the direction is.
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Yes, some can free wheel with the longer side pointing into wind.
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Tower cranes with concrete mass counterballance weights will 'weather cock' with the lifting boom into wind due to the wind resistance provided by the concrete. Those cranes that are catilever braced will tend to point downwind.
However IMHO they cannot be relied upon (apart from the flag as explained above) because there are so many variables that need to be satisfied. i.e Is there an operator in the cab, has the crane been left in freewheel mode, is the wind actually strong enough to weathercock it etc.
LM
However IMHO they cannot be relied upon (apart from the flag as explained above) because there are so many variables that need to be satisfied. i.e Is there an operator in the cab, has the crane been left in freewheel mode, is the wind actually strong enough to weathercock it etc.
LM
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Construction cranes are wind speed limited, regardless of being manned or not.
The limit is dependent on the jib length so a longer crane is likely to have a lower limit to a short armed one. The operator has control over when the jib swings free to the extent that they can complete a lift but that time span is quite short. If the limit is exceeded the crane weather vanes once it is unloaded and the hook raised.
Normally cranes are in weather vane mode when not operational, but on some sites 'stops' will be placed to avoid oversail if this causes and problem. Use of stops is in exceptional circumstances only as this imposes structural issues on the tower crane which are not always acceptable.
As others have said using the crane a wind indicators is not a reliable source...during working hours they will be moving unless the wind is too strong, in which case you will already know about it.. out of hours the weather van effect is possible but there are too many variables to make them good guides.
The limit is dependent on the jib length so a longer crane is likely to have a lower limit to a short armed one. The operator has control over when the jib swings free to the extent that they can complete a lift but that time span is quite short. If the limit is exceeded the crane weather vanes once it is unloaded and the hook raised.
Normally cranes are in weather vane mode when not operational, but on some sites 'stops' will be placed to avoid oversail if this causes and problem. Use of stops is in exceptional circumstances only as this imposes structural issues on the tower crane which are not always acceptable.
As others have said using the crane a wind indicators is not a reliable source...during working hours they will be moving unless the wind is too strong, in which case you will already know about it.. out of hours the weather van effect is possible but there are too many variables to make them good guides.
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We have to go all the way to the busiest heliport in London to find any big cranes so I always watch the cows - they stand with their backs into wind. Or was it their heads into wind......?
Actually, I watch the bloke in front. If he doesn't crash, I follow him in.
Actually, I watch the bloke in front. If he doesn't crash, I follow him in.
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Wow, is there anything you donīt know about??? 
Iīm impressed with some of the answers, I always thought that to be a chopper pilot someone needed to be out of his mind, and have no logical way of thinking at all!!
Itīs a relief that, besides that fabolous sense of humor, we still are mind users, which is what keep us airborne, isnīt it. I hope that auto pilots will never ever get in our thinking mode, like some plank jockeys....
Thanks to all!
P.S. It never crossed my mind to use cranes as the only means to asses wind, but at least they are not "alive" like horses or cows.... The bloody animals tend to run away when they hear a thup-thup, and I donīt think the care about the wind when they do
Iīm impressed with some of the answers, I always thought that to be a chopper pilot someone needed to be out of his mind, and have no logical way of thinking at all!!
Itīs a relief that, besides that fabolous sense of humor, we still are mind users, which is what keep us airborne, isnīt it. I hope that auto pilots will never ever get in our thinking mode, like some plank jockeys....
Thanks to all!
P.S. It never crossed my mind to use cranes as the only means to asses wind, but at least they are not "alive" like horses or cows.... The bloody animals tend to run away when they hear a thup-thup, and I donīt think the care about the wind when they do
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Cows put their tails into the wind, horses put their heads into the wind. Unless they're doing something else...
P.S. Take care out there, the hurricane force wind is going round in circles in that part of the world, according to our news!
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I don't know about seahorses - I've never gone to the bottom of the GOM. But I grew up in ranching country in the Texas panhandle, where everyone knew stuff like that.
Looks like good news for us, bad news for Mexico, on the hurricane front. At least for this one. The next one may be worse.
Looks like good news for us, bad news for Mexico, on the hurricane front. At least for this one. The next one may be worse.
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I am in London today looking out of the window of a large office block. The wind is northerly at about 20 knots. I tried to count the number of cranes that I could see but lost count at over 100.
All of the jibs are pointing south.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
All of the jibs are pointing south.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Skidkid; 22nd Aug 2007 at 12:16. Reason: Spelling Error
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thx Skidkid, look as though cranes might help after all, at least to lousy useless pilots like me, who wouldnīt feel a 20 knot wind if it came across their living room! .
Here in Spain, and Iīm not talking only about Madrid, there are more cranes per square metre than anywhere else in Europe!, and usually windsocks are over 30 years old and havenīt been mantained. I might end up looking at the flag on top of the crane, and if itīs been blown by the 30+ knot wind that I havenīt notice yet on final, the direction of the crane will tell me, in the absence of horses, seahorses, shi**ing cows and the lik.
Yep, Iīm crazy enough GOM, and not experienced enough I guess. But this reminds me of one experience I had when I had my PPL some years ago. I was about to get my CPL and went out on the Robbie for a short flight with a new student from Scotland. This was downunda in NZ. We operated from a quite tight LZ, and the take off procedure was to hover taxi from the hangar down a very narrow grass pad not longer than half a soccer field, surrounded by 50 feet tall tress. Well, this particular day we had some 20knot wind, which made the windsock stand as upright as weīd like to have something else, without Viagra
. However, I must admit, my cockiness at the time made me get the direction the other way around. It didnīt matter all the other clues I was getting like:
1) hover-taxiing over very long grass (not IGE) in the direction I thought it was downwind the MP was around 19-20" (two big guys, full load of fuel)i.e., 50% torque.
2)Pedal turn into wind (you stupid!), took full pedal from 90 to 180, and when finished, MP was nearly 24" (touching red line, perhaps).
3)Meanwhile, the guy next to me, having done 3 hours TT, asks me if Iīm possitive about where the wind is coming from. My answer: "Of course, look at the wind sock, it canīt be more easy, you dumb!"
4)No need to say, when I start rolling, the bloody ASI wonīt pick up, the trees are coming, f**k!, this scotish must have eaten a cow this morning, I thought, she doesnīt want to climb, full collective, RPM droping, more f**k.
Anyway, I cleared the trees, donīt know very well how and away we went. We see the Auckland scenery for a bit and head back for base. A couple of times my friend mentions the take off profile and the wind. "Donīt worry, I know what Iīm doing" I was turning from fool to damm stupid by then. So much I was sure (the CFI called it`'mindset' afterwards) that the approach was obviously from the same direction than the take off... And that was the funniest part, watching the ASI show 0, the ground speed highest than in F1, and meeting our best friend: Hello Vortex Ring!, its me the stupid **** that got the wind wrong!!!!!. After a hard landing and a debrief with the CFI, I learnt several lessons that day. And things I thought I already knew were demonstrated to me the hard way.
1)Always trust your instruments!
2)Never rely on just one thing
3)Careful with mindsets, or trying to make the picture fit what you think itīs true, rather than looking at the picture and trying to figure it out. Donīt never ever get confident in a heli(cocky)
4)Vortex Ring IS NOT just a theory thing at the POF book. It does happen! and VERY quickly
5)Cockpit managment: Doesnīt matter how good you are, or you think you are, the pair of eyes sitting next to you can see better than you, more often than not!
6)Wind is like your flying-wife. If you respect him and treat him well, he will give you pleasure, but if you divorce him, heīll become your worst enemy, and you may loose your honour, your house, your pay, your job, and even your life!
Call me a fool, but ever since (some 200 hours later), I still try to get at least 3 hints about the wind, and if is a strong one, 4 better than 3. And I try to update my situational awareness constantly.
So cranes might be one out of many, donīt you think?
Safe flying!
Borja
P.S. Thanks to all. As always, I learn a lot from you guys, even from people with little experience 
.Here in Spain, and Iīm not talking only about Madrid, there are more cranes per square metre than anywhere else in Europe!, and usually windsocks are over 30 years old and havenīt been mantained. I might end up looking at the flag on top of the crane, and if itīs been blown by the 30+ knot wind that I havenīt notice yet on final, the direction of the crane will tell me, in the absence of horses, seahorses, shi**ing cows and the lik.
Yep, Iīm crazy enough GOM, and not experienced enough I guess. But this reminds me of one experience I had when I had my PPL some years ago. I was about to get my CPL and went out on the Robbie for a short flight with a new student from Scotland. This was downunda in NZ. We operated from a quite tight LZ, and the take off procedure was to hover taxi from the hangar down a very narrow grass pad not longer than half a soccer field, surrounded by 50 feet tall tress. Well, this particular day we had some 20knot wind, which made the windsock stand as upright as weīd like to have something else, without Viagra
. However, I must admit, my cockiness at the time made me get the direction the other way around. It didnīt matter all the other clues I was getting like:1) hover-taxiing over very long grass (not IGE) in the direction I thought it was downwind the MP was around 19-20" (two big guys, full load of fuel)i.e., 50% torque.
2)Pedal turn into wind (you stupid!), took full pedal from 90 to 180, and when finished, MP was nearly 24" (touching red line, perhaps).
3)Meanwhile, the guy next to me, having done 3 hours TT, asks me if Iīm possitive about where the wind is coming from. My answer: "Of course, look at the wind sock, it canīt be more easy, you dumb!"
4)No need to say, when I start rolling, the bloody ASI wonīt pick up, the trees are coming, f**k!, this scotish must have eaten a cow this morning, I thought, she doesnīt want to climb, full collective, RPM droping, more f**k.
Anyway, I cleared the trees, donīt know very well how and away we went. We see the Auckland scenery for a bit and head back for base. A couple of times my friend mentions the take off profile and the wind. "Donīt worry, I know what Iīm doing" I was turning from fool to damm stupid by then. So much I was sure (the CFI called it`'mindset' afterwards) that the approach was obviously from the same direction than the take off... And that was the funniest part, watching the ASI show 0, the ground speed highest than in F1, and meeting our best friend: Hello Vortex Ring!, its me the stupid **** that got the wind wrong!!!!!. After a hard landing and a debrief with the CFI, I learnt several lessons that day. And things I thought I already knew were demonstrated to me the hard way.
1)Always trust your instruments!
2)Never rely on just one thing
3)Careful with mindsets, or trying to make the picture fit what you think itīs true, rather than looking at the picture and trying to figure it out. Donīt never ever get confident in a heli(cocky)
4)Vortex Ring IS NOT just a theory thing at the POF book. It does happen! and VERY quickly
5)Cockpit managment: Doesnīt matter how good you are, or you think you are, the pair of eyes sitting next to you can see better than you, more often than not!
6)Wind is like your flying-wife. If you respect him and treat him well, he will give you pleasure, but if you divorce him, heīll become your worst enemy, and you may loose your honour, your house, your pay, your job, and even your life!
Call me a fool, but ever since (some 200 hours later), I still try to get at least 3 hints about the wind, and if is a strong one, 4 better than 3. And I try to update my situational awareness constantly.
So cranes might be one out of many, donīt you think?
Safe flying!
Borja
P.S. Thanks to all.
As always, I learn a lot from you guys, even from people with little experience
