Police Job UK
Please forgive me for I am not a pilot, but I have been involved with Police Aviation for the past 23 years so I guess I do know a little about the subject. In the first instance TC and Fortyodd2 are quite correct in their approach.
It is important to realise that in this arena, the Police are the agency that owns the assets and it is they who pay the bills, ( Even if it can be argued that they do not pay enough ) so they have a right to call at least some of the shots.
From the outset they recognised that the overriding consideration must be that of flight safety. Secondly that they will be required to operate over a very conjested area ( The whole of UK ) 24 hrs a day, in some of the worst prevailing weather that Western Europe can throw.
The only safe way forward was to use highly skilled professional pilots who were used to operating twin turbined helicopters in all weathers and conditions. The legal minima for pilots who wished to become Police pilots was set at 1,500 hours but almost all units decided to se it at 2,000 hrs some even higher!
Remember, those of you that seek to criticise that decision, that all of our machines operate with a crew of 3 ( Or 2 in Devon & Cornwall ) The crew comprises of the Pilot ( 'cos without him or her ) we are not going anywhere, and two Police observers. The Police observers operate all the Police role equipment whilst the pilot flies the mission. The machine is an SPIFR equipped machine although will be operating under VFR conditions. It is a true single pilot operation because the aircraft will not be equipped with dual controls. They are taken out to facilitate the operation of the vast array of police role equipment.
The aircraft as I say will be operating relatively low heights over BUA's and also in very rural areas where visual references may be sparse. The crew must operate as a team under those conditions or disaster may follow. The police observers must trust their pilot implicitly but not be afraid to speak up when unhappy. The Pilot must trust his crew & know them well enough to detect when they are unhappy even before they say so.
Its too late when looking for a vulnerable misper over bad terrain at night & in bad weather, to start wishing that your pilot had more experience!
So know we will NOT reduce our experience requirements, there is a very good reason for them.
But we do employ pilots who have come up through the civi paths and we do employ female pilots, they are just as good as the guys. As one of them said to me recently " Look I am just a pilot who flys helicopters my gender is immaterial" She is right!
I have a fierce pride in what UK Police Aviation has acheived over the past 25years & that is in no small part due to pilots like TC and Fortyodd2. I know TC quite well and would state quite openly that he has moved our service on in huge amounts in recent years. Likewise Ibelieve Fortyodd who I do not know.
Tigerfish
It is important to realise that in this arena, the Police are the agency that owns the assets and it is they who pay the bills, ( Even if it can be argued that they do not pay enough ) so they have a right to call at least some of the shots.
From the outset they recognised that the overriding consideration must be that of flight safety. Secondly that they will be required to operate over a very conjested area ( The whole of UK ) 24 hrs a day, in some of the worst prevailing weather that Western Europe can throw.
The only safe way forward was to use highly skilled professional pilots who were used to operating twin turbined helicopters in all weathers and conditions. The legal minima for pilots who wished to become Police pilots was set at 1,500 hours but almost all units decided to se it at 2,000 hrs some even higher!
Remember, those of you that seek to criticise that decision, that all of our machines operate with a crew of 3 ( Or 2 in Devon & Cornwall ) The crew comprises of the Pilot ( 'cos without him or her ) we are not going anywhere, and two Police observers. The Police observers operate all the Police role equipment whilst the pilot flies the mission. The machine is an SPIFR equipped machine although will be operating under VFR conditions. It is a true single pilot operation because the aircraft will not be equipped with dual controls. They are taken out to facilitate the operation of the vast array of police role equipment.
The aircraft as I say will be operating relatively low heights over BUA's and also in very rural areas where visual references may be sparse. The crew must operate as a team under those conditions or disaster may follow. The police observers must trust their pilot implicitly but not be afraid to speak up when unhappy. The Pilot must trust his crew & know them well enough to detect when they are unhappy even before they say so.
Its too late when looking for a vulnerable misper over bad terrain at night & in bad weather, to start wishing that your pilot had more experience!
So know we will NOT reduce our experience requirements, there is a very good reason for them.
But we do employ pilots who have come up through the civi paths and we do employ female pilots, they are just as good as the guys. As one of them said to me recently " Look I am just a pilot who flys helicopters my gender is immaterial" She is right!
I have a fierce pride in what UK Police Aviation has acheived over the past 25years & that is in no small part due to pilots like TC and Fortyodd2. I know TC quite well and would state quite openly that he has moved our service on in huge amounts in recent years. Likewise Ibelieve Fortyodd who I do not know.
Tigerfish
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I have too much testosterone and a 'cavalier' (sp? x 50 Mr W2p!)attitude after spending 18 years flying jelly wopters and 8 of those years flying SAR, Mr DupeSpud?
The source of military pilots is slowly drying up as Government cutbacks reduces the amount of helos on the front line and pi$$es off those who fly them. Many, myself included, jump ship and go and fly aluminium tubes around the skies as the crew(wo)men are prettier (most of the time) and they have coffee machines onboard!!!!
Military flying training is a KNOWN ENTITY. Those that pass through it are also, generally speaking, KNOWN ENTITIES. There are also alot of very experienced civilian trained (not civvies, we are all civvies in this world) pilots who are as good, or better, or worse. It makes very little difference. What does make the difference is your experience, training, sub specialisations etc. Any potential employer will want to see a relevant skills set that is pertinant to his/her operation. This reduces the time it takes to get you 'online' thus reducing the cost. HEMS/PAS is a specialist operation, using multi engined helos operating in confined areas. Not the 'normal' sort of helo operations hence those that leave the military with that background tend to 'slot' nicely into the operation.
I think you have a problem with 'military' as you feel they are taking away the oppotunities that you should be getting as you are 'breaking into' the industry. I feel that this is somewhat misguided as an interviewer would probably tell you to go away and get some experience under your belt. He would not want to give you his big shiny EC135 and, more importantly, his crew. FACT OF LIFE MY BOY!
Until the whole industry drys up and they desperately need pilots and have no one with a better CV you will just have to wait. You seem to be caught in that never ending circle of need experience for job but can't get job to get experience.
Good luck
W2P
Oh, and watch the attitude, it's a small world and you don't want to be burning bridges this early!
The source of military pilots is slowly drying up as Government cutbacks reduces the amount of helos on the front line and pi$$es off those who fly them. Many, myself included, jump ship and go and fly aluminium tubes around the skies as the crew(wo)men are prettier (most of the time) and they have coffee machines onboard!!!!
Military flying training is a KNOWN ENTITY. Those that pass through it are also, generally speaking, KNOWN ENTITIES. There are also alot of very experienced civilian trained (not civvies, we are all civvies in this world) pilots who are as good, or better, or worse. It makes very little difference. What does make the difference is your experience, training, sub specialisations etc. Any potential employer will want to see a relevant skills set that is pertinant to his/her operation. This reduces the time it takes to get you 'online' thus reducing the cost. HEMS/PAS is a specialist operation, using multi engined helos operating in confined areas. Not the 'normal' sort of helo operations hence those that leave the military with that background tend to 'slot' nicely into the operation.
I think you have a problem with 'military' as you feel they are taking away the oppotunities that you should be getting as you are 'breaking into' the industry. I feel that this is somewhat misguided as an interviewer would probably tell you to go away and get some experience under your belt. He would not want to give you his big shiny EC135 and, more importantly, his crew. FACT OF LIFE MY BOY!
Until the whole industry drys up and they desperately need pilots and have no one with a better CV you will just have to wait. You seem to be caught in that never ending circle of need experience for job but can't get job to get experience.
Good luck
W2P
Oh, and watch the attitude, it's a small world and you don't want to be burning bridges this early!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
I wish that my Puma had the avionics fit that our EC135 has as standard!!! Going out in 2km visibility and 600' cloudbase at night without NVG is a rare occurence, but we do have to do it. I have flown NVG on ops in the military, which was difficult, this 'civvie' flying is just as challenging. Usually no time to do any planning, luckily you know your patch in Liverpool. Other units are not so lucky with dark areas and big hills. Would I trust a civilian trained pilot to operate in these conditions?? Of course, with some history to go on. Would I trust a military trained pilot to do the same?? Of course, with some history to go on..............
Look similar? It is identical at first, then one obvious thing kicks in. Where do I get that history from? CVs are pure fiction so I need to talk to people I know and trust. Old mates will tell you if this pilot is an idiot or not. Note, military doesn't mean better
, it means that strokers can be identified easier. That is why companies will go that way first. Harsh, but understandable.......
Look similar? It is identical at first, then one obvious thing kicks in. Where do I get that history from? CVs are pure fiction so I need to talk to people I know and trust. Old mates will tell you if this pilot is an idiot or not. Note, military doesn't mean better
, it means that strokers can be identified easier. That is why companies will go that way first. Harsh, but understandable.......
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kk it's a long one so get comfy...
May I just say that being an ex-RN snirk and being lucky enough to have been on some wild rides in Lynx's and Sea Kings, I full on salute RN Helicopter Pilots and trust me when I say they got me safely onto stuff that just did not want to be landed on!!!
I am now approaching the first steps on a ladder that you have already begun to climb dudspud. I intend one day to be every bit as good as the guys I admired back in the service and that isn't cavalier, that was calm, safe and comprehensively skilled to deal with anything that was thrown at them. (Shame there are no ships flight deck simulators you can try out on a v.diff setting!!) I am sure AAC and RAF peeps are just as competent. Try not to show your yearning to have been one of them Dud.. I know how it feels, I wish I had been.
Here is something I appear to have learnt ahead of you my friend.. Maybe it is because of my forces background but here goes..
Small groups have long memories.. Small Intelligent groups have longer memories..
It helps to get on well with everyone all the time if possible.. you never know when they will be looking at your CV in the future..
Never annoy ex mil pilots.. they still have friends that fly Apaches.. Admittedly they are nearly all in Iraq and Afghanistan but don't tempt fate (Dud.. That was a joke by the way)
Have the cahones to apologise rather than make excuses.. Better to admit your fault and be forgiven then stand by a daft statement and be ridiculed and remembered for that one thing.. there is a lot in the saying "forgive and forget"... The hole is just getting deeper.. and this peer group is way too valuable a resource to lose the respect of... (Not sucking up here all!! Just being realistic..)
It's not just about experience.. You just have to read the thread on "Chief Pilot Grounded" to learn that... The guy involved must have many k's worth of hours but is still considered an idiot that blames others for his failings..
(Extract!!) If it is the CP in question it not the first time that I know of...I guess people are sick of covering his ample behind....
By the way don't send him west, we don't want him........I came here to get away from him
Small world??
Not having a degree meant I failed to get many a juicy position in IT and it galled but I didn't go around railing the worth of having a degree.. Or belittling it, I worked twice as hard, built up excellent experience and references and finally got to where I needed to be.. earning enough money to get out of an office and on to a CPL(H) course next year!!!
That's my tuppence worth Dud.. Please take it in the spirit of comraderie it is given and like all advice.. take it or leave it.. :-))
Now.. Any of you cavaliers out there feel like sponsoring a nobody with poor quals so I don't have to sell my house to follow my dream??... is that silence I hear and tumbleweed I see?? ahh well.. Next year Cape Town for 10 months lol.. then a life of skintness and uncertainty... with only this thought to keep me warm whilst begging jobs...
"Until one is committed there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favour all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now." Goethe (Bright fella)
May I just say that being an ex-RN snirk and being lucky enough to have been on some wild rides in Lynx's and Sea Kings, I full on salute RN Helicopter Pilots and trust me when I say they got me safely onto stuff that just did not want to be landed on!!!
I am now approaching the first steps on a ladder that you have already begun to climb dudspud. I intend one day to be every bit as good as the guys I admired back in the service and that isn't cavalier, that was calm, safe and comprehensively skilled to deal with anything that was thrown at them. (Shame there are no ships flight deck simulators you can try out on a v.diff setting!!) I am sure AAC and RAF peeps are just as competent. Try not to show your yearning to have been one of them Dud.. I know how it feels, I wish I had been.
Here is something I appear to have learnt ahead of you my friend.. Maybe it is because of my forces background but here goes..
Small groups have long memories.. Small Intelligent groups have longer memories..
It helps to get on well with everyone all the time if possible.. you never know when they will be looking at your CV in the future..
Never annoy ex mil pilots.. they still have friends that fly Apaches.. Admittedly they are nearly all in Iraq and Afghanistan but don't tempt fate (Dud.. That was a joke by the way)
Have the cahones to apologise rather than make excuses.. Better to admit your fault and be forgiven then stand by a daft statement and be ridiculed and remembered for that one thing.. there is a lot in the saying "forgive and forget"... The hole is just getting deeper.. and this peer group is way too valuable a resource to lose the respect of... (Not sucking up here all!! Just being realistic..)
It's not just about experience.. You just have to read the thread on "Chief Pilot Grounded" to learn that... The guy involved must have many k's worth of hours but is still considered an idiot that blames others for his failings..
(Extract!!) If it is the CP in question it not the first time that I know of...I guess people are sick of covering his ample behind....
By the way don't send him west, we don't want him........I came here to get away from him
Small world??
Not having a degree meant I failed to get many a juicy position in IT and it galled but I didn't go around railing the worth of having a degree.. Or belittling it, I worked twice as hard, built up excellent experience and references and finally got to where I needed to be.. earning enough money to get out of an office and on to a CPL(H) course next year!!!
That's my tuppence worth Dud.. Please take it in the spirit of comraderie it is given and like all advice.. take it or leave it.. :-))
Now.. Any of you cavaliers out there feel like sponsoring a nobody with poor quals so I don't have to sell my house to follow my dream??... is that silence I hear and tumbleweed I see?? ahh well.. Next year Cape Town for 10 months lol.. then a life of skintness and uncertainty... with only this thought to keep me warm whilst begging jobs...
"Until one is committed there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favour all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now." Goethe (Bright fella)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ScrumpyLuvver,
What ever route you take it's a long one but worth while if it's really what you want to do in life.
Ignore unhelpfull posts from people who are already there but forget what it's like starting out.
Good luck mate....
What ever route you take it's a long one but worth while if it's really what you want to do in life.
Ignore unhelpfull posts from people who are already there but forget what it's like starting out.
Good luck mate....
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers.. Free lunches I have never had, nor never expect but that will never stop me trying for one lol!! 
Kalif, thank you for the positive stuff.. I have had a good deal offer from Base4 in Cape Town so hopefully I will scrape together enough for PPL(H) in Jan/Feb pre house sale so I can be sure it's all good.. and if it is, Start CPL(H) FI IR path in June July.. ish
Jetmax's stuff has been really helpful and being the pragmatic chappy I am, very real. From 0 - CPL(H) and now 1300hrs and working 3 yrs later.. I like them biscuits.. and kudos too the guy he didn't hide the hardships in the middle..
Care to comment on Cape Town as a choice?
After research I was thinking,
Mountains
Coast
Busy ATC
Unpredictable Weather
Variable terrain
and Free accom.. (Friends living there lol)
+ enough money left over for JAA Conv if I have to come back straight away
and a few Uk hrs (20 - 30ish depending on how far I have to tuck into my contingency fund of 20% on top of all projected costs) to build xp and hopefully the trust and realtionships needed to find work.
If not.. well I have lost nothing important.. Gained everything and it will be office hrs
and hrs building until I get a job flying..
Does that all sound right or are you all laughing at my incredible naivety?? :-))
Anyway, sorry for the thread change, I am slapping my wrists right now...
Kalif, thank you for the positive stuff.. I have had a good deal offer from Base4 in Cape Town so hopefully I will scrape together enough for PPL(H) in Jan/Feb pre house sale so I can be sure it's all good.. and if it is, Start CPL(H) FI IR path in June July.. ish
Jetmax's stuff has been really helpful and being the pragmatic chappy I am, very real. From 0 - CPL(H) and now 1300hrs and working 3 yrs later.. I like them biscuits.. and kudos too the guy he didn't hide the hardships in the middle..
Care to comment on Cape Town as a choice?
After research I was thinking,
Mountains
Coast
Busy ATC
Unpredictable Weather
Variable terrain
and Free accom.. (Friends living there lol)
+ enough money left over for JAA Conv if I have to come back straight away
and a few Uk hrs (20 - 30ish depending on how far I have to tuck into my contingency fund of 20% on top of all projected costs) to build xp and hopefully the trust and realtionships needed to find work.If not.. well I have lost nothing important.. Gained everything and it will be office hrs
and hrs building until I get a job flying..Does that all sound right or are you all laughing at my incredible naivety?? :-))
Anyway, sorry for the thread change, I am slapping my wrists right now...
