Private Landing Sites Info Please....
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Private Landing Sites Info Please....
Hi all. I am looking at buying a pub with lots of land around it. The pub will be a b&b and the land will be used for camping and caravans. There is a nice square flat bit of land just to one side of the pub. It is the right size and would be ideal for landing a helicopter on.
What would I need to do to make it legal, is it as simple as fencing it off and painting a big H there or do I have to jump through burning hoops of fire at the CAA?
Do you have a private site, what do I need to be wary of if it goes ahead?
Thanks.
What would I need to do to make it legal, is it as simple as fencing it off and painting a big H there or do I have to jump through burning hoops of fire at the CAA?
Do you have a private site, what do I need to be wary of if it goes ahead?
Thanks.
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Hi,
as far as I am aware, if the land is considered to be within your own curtilage then you can take off and land all day, every day, to your heart's content without anyone's permission.
If the land is owned by you, but adjacent to your property, then technically you are limited to 28 movements in any one year. (Unless you get specific permission ) However, this limit assumes that someone is counting. i.e. if you were not upsetting anyone and no-one actually complained to the CAA then you are likely to get away with it.
I believe that you are allowed to erect structures that are not considered permanent e.g. a windsock, but a hangar would require planning permission. Likewise, I'm fairly sure that you can spray a letter "H" on your grass, but if you were to construct a helipad then that would need permission. I suspect however that a circular or square shaped patio would be more than acceptable!!!
It may be worth confirming everything I have said, but I'm reasonably confident that it's accurate.
as far as I am aware, if the land is considered to be within your own curtilage then you can take off and land all day, every day, to your heart's content without anyone's permission.
If the land is owned by you, but adjacent to your property, then technically you are limited to 28 movements in any one year. (Unless you get specific permission ) However, this limit assumes that someone is counting. i.e. if you were not upsetting anyone and no-one actually complained to the CAA then you are likely to get away with it.
I believe that you are allowed to erect structures that are not considered permanent e.g. a windsock, but a hangar would require planning permission. Likewise, I'm fairly sure that you can spray a letter "H" on your grass, but if you were to construct a helipad then that would need permission. I suspect however that a circular or square shaped patio would be more than acceptable!!!
It may be worth confirming everything I have said, but I'm reasonably confident that it's accurate.
Actually I believe you're allowed movements on '28 occasions' (which most people interpret as 28 days) per year before you need planning permission. It's just been discussed in the Private Flying forum.
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BRL,
In your post you don't say what you would intend to use the pad for. Would it just be for your helicopter, would you allow customers to use it or would you let anyone use it and even charge them?
It is always possible for the lawyers and courts to change their view.
However my understanding of the current position is that so long as the site is within the curtilage of your house (i.e. in the garden) or business premises and that your use of the site as a landing pad is incidental to the primary use, then you do not need planning permission because there is no material change of use. The pad can be used as often as you like within the above limits.
If you convert a piece of land to be a pad that was say an agricultural field, then you are likely to require planning permission. However, if you simply use such a field without structural changes (e.g. putting up a hangar or a fancy opad with lights and bells and whistles) than you can use it for up to 28 days per year without needing PP.
Planning Law and planning permission is about the use of the land: the CAA role is to regulate air safety. The two are quite separate.
In respect of all the above PP stuff, the CAA are irrelevant. They will be concerned that any flight in or out can be done safely and in accordance with the Rules of the Air. In the case of AOC ops, there would be particular requirements that they would require the flight operator to comply with.
In your post you don't say what you would intend to use the pad for. Would it just be for your helicopter, would you allow customers to use it or would you let anyone use it and even charge them?
It is always possible for the lawyers and courts to change their view.
However my understanding of the current position is that so long as the site is within the curtilage of your house (i.e. in the garden) or business premises and that your use of the site as a landing pad is incidental to the primary use, then you do not need planning permission because there is no material change of use. The pad can be used as often as you like within the above limits.
If you convert a piece of land to be a pad that was say an agricultural field, then you are likely to require planning permission. However, if you simply use such a field without structural changes (e.g. putting up a hangar or a fancy opad with lights and bells and whistles) than you can use it for up to 28 days per year without needing PP.
Planning Law and planning permission is about the use of the land: the CAA role is to regulate air safety. The two are quite separate.
In respect of all the above PP stuff, the CAA are irrelevant. They will be concerned that any flight in or out can be done safely and in accordance with the Rules of the Air. In the case of AOC ops, there would be particular requirements that they would require the flight operator to comply with.
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There has been a recent case here at a local pub where the landlord put a square of concrete down for visiting helicopters to land. The council tried to get him to remove it but had to climb down when a planning consultant friend of mine pointed out to them that a square of concrete was just a square of concrete and the small hole in the middle was for putting the rotary clothes line in when required. It is still there but not used very much by helicopters as it is not a particularly nice pub!
If you do put concrete down, probably better not to put H on it. Then you say it is anything you can think of if the council man comes round. If you leave it grass you can always lay a temporary flat wooden H if you are expecting visitors. Easier to mow as well.
Most of the private sites round here are just a flat grass area with no marks other than maybe a windsock nearby. You will find that word quickly spreads if your pub is any good and you can always tell visitors where to land when they phone for PPR.
If you do put concrete down, probably better not to put H on it. Then you say it is anything you can think of if the council man comes round. If you leave it grass you can always lay a temporary flat wooden H if you are expecting visitors. Easier to mow as well.
Most of the private sites round here are just a flat grass area with no marks other than maybe a windsock nearby. You will find that word quickly spreads if your pub is any good and you can always tell visitors where to land when they phone for PPR.
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Hi guys. I don't own a helicopter, never will, I will never be able to afford to run the thing!!
Plan is to have a pad and let anyone come and go, use the b&b or just drop in for lunch.
I want to let anyone fly-in and out. As I say I don't have a helicopter and have done a search here, most of the info concerns private strips with your own helicopter.
Plan is to have a pad and let anyone come and go, use the b&b or just drop in for lunch.
I want to let anyone fly-in and out. As I say I don't have a helicopter and have done a search here, most of the info concerns private strips with your own helicopter.
Sounds ideal, BRL.
I'm not sure how aware you are but the approaches to a helipad are just as important (if not more so) than the pad itself. This is particularly pertinent to small single helis, who I imagine might be your most regular visitors.
Have you got the postcode for the pub? Sites like local.live.com or Google Earth/Maps can give us a very good idea of the surroundings of the site without having to visit first. PM it to me if you would prefer.
I'm not sure how aware you are but the approaches to a helipad are just as important (if not more so) than the pad itself. This is particularly pertinent to small single helis, who I imagine might be your most regular visitors.
Have you got the postcode for the pub? Sites like local.live.com or Google Earth/Maps can give us a very good idea of the surroundings of the site without having to visit first. PM it to me if you would prefer.
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BRL,
The really good way to get good relevant advice is for a competent pilot/operator to discuss the specifics of your proposal with you. If you give us an idea where it is, someone from Rotorheads may well volunteer to help out................
In your own interests, there are 1 or 2 things that you should do too before allowing visiting heles. I suggest that it would be good to prepare a short note about the site for pilots that could be faxed/emailed to anyone wanting to fly-in, which would also define te terms of use of the site. You also ought to get them to undertake the landing at their own risk. The note can also be sent to one of a number of helicopter landing site guides that could help to generate you a bit of trade too.
It would be sensible to make it clear that you require prior permission before a landing (PPR). This would avoid possible untimely arrivals.
The really good way to get good relevant advice is for a competent pilot/operator to discuss the specifics of your proposal with you. If you give us an idea where it is, someone from Rotorheads may well volunteer to help out................
In your own interests, there are 1 or 2 things that you should do too before allowing visiting heles. I suggest that it would be good to prepare a short note about the site for pilots that could be faxed/emailed to anyone wanting to fly-in, which would also define te terms of use of the site. You also ought to get them to undertake the landing at their own risk. The note can also be sent to one of a number of helicopter landing site guides that could help to generate you a bit of trade too.
It would be sensible to make it clear that you require prior permission before a landing (PPR). This would avoid possible untimely arrivals.
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Pity you are (presumably) near Brighton. There is a shortage of good pubs with landing sites near here - maybe because Derbyshire is in the hills. Several posh hotels but not too many nice lunchtime pubs.
Good luck with your project.
Good luck with your project.
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Further to Curtis' post, BHAB also provide some other useful info with guidance on sizing, noise issues, and legislation etc.
The Civil Helicopter in the Community
Helicopter Site Keepers
Hope it helps.
The Civil Helicopter in the Community
Helicopter Site Keepers
Hope it helps.
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Excellent links chaps, thanks very much indeed. It looks straightforward enough.
Plenty of room for an approach except from the south-west as the camping field and caravan park is there. Other than that there is lots of room for an approach from pretty much anywhere really which is good as I imagine most visitors will be arriving from the north and west of the site.
It will be near the Kent Sussex border.
Plenty of room for an approach except from the south-west as the camping field and caravan park is there. Other than that there is lots of room for an approach from pretty much anywhere really which is good as I imagine most visitors will be arriving from the north and west of the site.
It will be near the Kent Sussex border.
