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IFR Squirrels

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IFR Squirrels

Old 1st Jul 2007, 15:55
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IFR Squirrels

Could anybody tell me which Twin Squirrels are true, IFR performance A machines and what sort of icing clearance can be obtained for them ?
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:05
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as355, the N models I believe.. I am booked in to do my me(cir) at the end of the year in one.
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:12
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There is no icing clearance for the AS355.

What do you man by "true, IFR performance A machines"?
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:18
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AS355

AS355 N and the new NP are Class A in SPIFR (the NP should have better Class A margins with the new gearbox from the 350B3) - of course F1 and F2 are SPIFR, but not Class A as I recall....and none are ice certified
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:20
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better bring a spare engine if its an 'N'...
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:29
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Good question Curtis ! I have heard that the older Twin Squirrels can't maintain height on one engine. Is this the case? If so do the N models have much better SE performance. By perf A , I mean, have the ability to continue flight after an engine failure at any phase of flight. Hope this clears the question up

Thanks for the icing clearance info.

Docstone, could you tell me what SPIFR means? Sorry to be slow but been out of rotary for 15 years and just getting back in.
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:31
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Single Pilot IFR - N is very good on single engine (unless loaded to the absolute limits), NP should be nicer still
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 16:41
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It's also the cheapest/hr SPIFR machine around at around 1800AUD/hr as opposed to an A109 at 3400/hr.

I guess it all depends on what you are using it for.
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 17:06
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...the ability to continue flight after an engine failure at any phase of flight...
For a helicopter to be cleared for IFR (IMC) flight, it must be certificated in Category A (that is to say it conforms to the certification requirements of CS 27/29). It also has to be operated in Performance Class 1.

Performance Class 1 operations are those with performance such that, in the event of failure of the critical power unit, the helicopter is able to land within the rejected take-off distance available or safely continue the flight to an appropriate landing area, depending on when the failure occurs (JAR-OPS 3.480). It goes without saying, of course, that the aircraft must be flown within the WAT limits for the conditions of the day. This definition is not quite what you suggested as you think that continued flight should be possible at all stages of flight.

In the early stages of take-off (up to TDP) and the late stages of landing (after LDP), the aircraft is committed to landing. At all other times it can continue flight or land as appropriate. As the AS355 F1/2 complies with all these criteria, it is approved for SPIFR.

As for maintaining height on one engine, JAR-OPS 3.500 requires a helicopter, when flying out of sight of the surface, to be able to climb at at least 50 fpm OEI at an altitude of at least 1,000 ft above the highest obstacle 10 nm either side of track. If flying at a higher altitude when the engine failure occurs, drift down to MSA is permitted providing the criteria above are met.

Finally, the N models do have better OEI performance.

Last edited by Curtis E Carr; 1st Jul 2007 at 19:09.
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Old 1st Jul 2007, 17:11
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I believe the max weight for Perf A in our old F1s was 2400 kg, which didn't leave much of a payload.

phil
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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 01:14
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Easy answer .......


NONE!



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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 07:21
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Hi Guys,

I've just joined the forum.......................I'm off to PAS in Staverton soon to do my ME IR on twin squirrel. Hopefully i've done my homework and chosen the right company. Any body had any drama's there or got any tips?

Thanks
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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 07:30
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Welcome aboard NoordZee.
Do a search through previous posts. There is a fairly lengthy thread on IR stuff somewhere from when a lot of us all did ours. Many of us asked the silly questions. PAS have a reasonably good reputation. Most places are real busy right now so unless you booked ages ago, you've been lucky to get on a course. Just enjoy the course.
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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 07:40
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Thanks for the welcome..............Course booked and i'm looking forward too it

Also i have just started to use RANT. Will this add confusion to the ground school element or a good training aid?

Last edited by Noordzee Cowboy; 2nd Jul 2007 at 12:17. Reason: Added more info
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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 20:12
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RANT good. Something to do between flying and SIM. Tim, who invented it, deserves a medal (MBE perhaps)

h-r
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 06:45
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French Army teach IFR on AS 355N at Le Luc school for more than 12 years now. Helicopter is not protected against icing except air intake and flying in clouds at less than 2 or 2C could be challanging.

Drakkar
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 07:05
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Helicopter is not protected against icing except air intake and flying in clouds at less than 2 or 2C could be challanging.
It is !!

 
Old 3rd Jul 2007, 07:52
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BTW air intake don't have any specific anti-ice protection.

 
Old 4th Jul 2007, 16:11
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Havick

What AS355 are you doing your CIR on (N or F)? The only AS355N I know of in Aus is with the NSW Police.

It is probably the cheapest option of getting your multi-engine CIR.

Good luck with it
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Old 6th Jul 2007, 22:47
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Thanks for all your help and advice guys, very useful and veeerry interesting !!
Regards
JS
Now, off to re-read Perf A helis and swat up on JAR ops.....Whoooppeeee
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