Time to ditch turbomeca ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,529
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From: yorkshire uk
Time to ditch turbomeca ?
I have heard that Honeywell have been working on certification of their D star engine that gave the Falling Star its name 
I am assured that it is now an excellent engine and has been flown for many 1000 hrs by Papillon Helicopters. I will be speaking to them but does anybody have first hand experience of this engine now ( dont want to hear of near death experiences with the old one ...) I am told it is 4,000 hr tbo with NO calender life and could be 15 -20% more efficient than the french one . I have heard so many horror stories regarding turbomeca engines lately i hope Eurocopter offer this as an option...without the current engine the 350 would be a great machine to operate and it would be nice not to have the worry of a $400k + bill every time you start it up 
ps I know the 350 engine is a great engine when it works ....but i know of a lot that have packed up after less than 1000 TT and you then give them yr beautiful new engine PLUS $400k and get back some old dog thats got 000,s hrs but gone through ohaul...
I am assured that it is now an excellent engine and has been flown for many 1000 hrs by Papillon Helicopters. I will be speaking to them but does anybody have first hand experience of this engine now ( dont want to hear of near death experiences with the old one ...) I am told it is 4,000 hr tbo with NO calender life and could be 15 -20% more efficient than the french one . I have heard so many horror stories regarding turbomeca engines lately i hope Eurocopter offer this as an option...without the current engine the 350 would be a great machine to operate and it would be nice not to have the worry of a $400k + bill every time you start it up ps I know the 350 engine is a great engine when it works ....but i know of a lot that have packed up after less than 1000 TT and you then give them yr beautiful new engine PLUS $400k and get back some old dog thats got 000,s hrs but gone through ohaul...
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 299
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From: the great white north
i used to work for abitibi helicopters in calgary and they have taken delivery of at least a couple of the new FX stc'd astars from heli-lynx of ontario. they seem to be very happy with them, however i did not get a chance to work with one. i did fly one with the 600 series engine in it for 1 hr of recurrent training and it seemed nice enough.
having said that, i do have some time in their older BA+'s (the 600 series giving performance levels between the BA and the B2) which abitibi operates and i much preferred the governing of the ariel powered machines. the response to changes in power demands was much more crisp with the turbomeca's. the LTS seemed to wallow or overspeed (not excessively, though). this is when doing production longline work so the collective is up and down constantly. the new ones are supposed to be much better.
as far as maintenance, they are apparently much cheaper to o/haul; the o/haul can be done in house (i believe). cycle limits are much higher on the 101's, fuel burn is better, and parts are cheaper. this is not to mention a supposedly dramatic increase in high density alt. performance over the B2 with the 700 series.
it seems like a no brainer but i still like flying the B2 but then i don't have to fork out the $$ to repair or maintain.
having said that, i do have some time in their older BA+'s (the 600 series giving performance levels between the BA and the B2) which abitibi operates and i much preferred the governing of the ariel powered machines. the response to changes in power demands was much more crisp with the turbomeca's. the LTS seemed to wallow or overspeed (not excessively, though). this is when doing production longline work so the collective is up and down constantly. the new ones are supposed to be much better.
as far as maintenance, they are apparently much cheaper to o/haul; the o/haul can be done in house (i believe). cycle limits are much higher on the 101's, fuel burn is better, and parts are cheaper. this is not to mention a supposedly dramatic increase in high density alt. performance over the B2 with the 700 series.
it seems like a no brainer but i still like flying the B2 but then i don't have to fork out the $$ to repair or maintain.
Last edited by Fun Police; 6th June 2007 at 22:49. Reason: spelling
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,529
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From: yorkshire uk
Thanks for that Fun Police. What is the difference between the 600 and 700 ? I have a BA so i guess there is no change needed to blades Txmission etc I think for a private operator it makes real sense and may bring a lot of people back to Eurocopter. ( At a dinner the other night there were 4 people who either had owned or would own a 350 if there was a cheaper engine option ) Lets face it the 350 is the best all round single out there by a mile . It is relatively fast, quiet, comfortable , great viz for all pax, loads of power, easy to fly etc etc the engine just kills it for most people
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 299
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From: the great white north
sorry, but i'm not sure what the exact differences are between the 600 and 700 series engines.
the blades/head and transmission are all the same as the BA/B2 pretty much except for the tail which has the B3 box and blades. i do seem to recall that if you have an existing airframe that is to be converted there are some structural mods that need to be completed. i suppose that makes sense as with the -700 engine installed the MAUW can be increased to that of the B3, however this results in component having B3 o/h times being imposed upon them.
keep in mind that i am not an engineer just a lowly driver and stand to be corrected on some of the details
.
the blades/head and transmission are all the same as the BA/B2 pretty much except for the tail which has the B3 box and blades. i do seem to recall that if you have an existing airframe that is to be converted there are some structural mods that need to be completed. i suppose that makes sense as with the -700 engine installed the MAUW can be increased to that of the B3, however this results in component having B3 o/h times being imposed upon them.
keep in mind that i am not an engineer just a lowly driver and stand to be corrected on some of the details
.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 814
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From: the hills of halton
I think it is the rated SHP , 600 is around 600SHP , 700 700 SHP
,750 recently removed ( in error ) from the USCG dolphins . 900 is the new series for the Bell ARH ( loosly based on the LTS ). When I used to work with troubelmakers I was amazed at some of the quotes for 3000 hr overhauls. The LTS has an 1800 hr Hot Section Inspection , the power turbine wheel is life limited ( not sure of exact figure ) but the engine is basically on condition with no set overhaul cycle. Soloy sell a kit with just the engine upgrade HELILYNX sell a kit with engine upgrade plus a complete rewiring of the aircraft ( with no glass fuses ).There may be another a player in the game as well . I am not sure if any of the kits is EASA certified but they are both TC and FAA certified.
,750 recently removed ( in error ) from the USCG dolphins . 900 is the new series for the Bell ARH ( loosly based on the LTS ). When I used to work with troubelmakers I was amazed at some of the quotes for 3000 hr overhauls. The LTS has an 1800 hr Hot Section Inspection , the power turbine wheel is life limited ( not sure of exact figure ) but the engine is basically on condition with no set overhaul cycle. Soloy sell a kit with just the engine upgrade HELILYNX sell a kit with engine upgrade plus a complete rewiring of the aircraft ( with no glass fuses ).There may be another a player in the game as well . I am not sure if any of the kits is EASA certified but they are both TC and FAA certified.
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: canada
A contributor on Vertical Mag's experience, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words:
And the author's comments:
And the author's comments:
Here is what an FX2 with an LTS 101-700 D2 can do at 6000 ft and 24 C in Arizona
I am picking up a 1200 lbs bird and climbing to 300 ft AGL for a morning radar alt. test, hence the 0 A/S, not much left with operator on board and 65 % fuel as you can see..........I would guess a (real B2) would do the same with only 30 % fuel before NG out
Max TO T4 923 C and Max transient T4 944 C not bad EH!
Max Ng 106.6
I am picking up a 1200 lbs bird and climbing to 300 ft AGL for a morning radar alt. test, hence the 0 A/S, not much left with operator on board and 65 % fuel as you can see..........I would guess a (real B2) would do the same with only 30 % fuel before NG out
Max TO T4 923 C and Max transient T4 944 C not bad EH!
Max Ng 106.6
