EC130 Corner
Maxtork
Thanks, sounds similar but with differences.
On both 155 models (B has the 2C1 and the B1 has the 2C2) if there is a loss of signal for which there is redundency, and so no effect on governing performance, the flashing GOV caption is used, with similar logic to what you have described. It flashes because it will be sitting amongst a load of other captions, normally, on shutdown.
If a signal is lost for which there is no redundency and a back up, or retrieval law, is incorporated, the steady GOV caption comes on and indicates there may be some degradation in governing performance. You could still have both channels working though (yes, it's dual channel).
If there are multiple input failures, or somehow the actual FADEC it self fails, and the FADEC can no longer function, the metering valve freezes and the Red GOV caption comes on if you are in a B model (pre back up mod) or an amber FADEC FAIL caption on the CAD if you are in a B1 or a B with the mod fitted. In the first case, that's it, the engine is frozen and will probably need shutting down for landing to prevent overspeed. In the second case, the back up switch is used to operate the EBCAU and a normal landing can be maded without abrupt power changes.
Thanks, sounds similar but with differences.
On both 155 models (B has the 2C1 and the B1 has the 2C2) if there is a loss of signal for which there is redundency, and so no effect on governing performance, the flashing GOV caption is used, with similar logic to what you have described. It flashes because it will be sitting amongst a load of other captions, normally, on shutdown.
If a signal is lost for which there is no redundency and a back up, or retrieval law, is incorporated, the steady GOV caption comes on and indicates there may be some degradation in governing performance. You could still have both channels working though (yes, it's dual channel).
If there are multiple input failures, or somehow the actual FADEC it self fails, and the FADEC can no longer function, the metering valve freezes and the Red GOV caption comes on if you are in a B model (pre back up mod) or an amber FADEC FAIL caption on the CAD if you are in a B1 or a B with the mod fitted. In the first case, that's it, the engine is frozen and will probably need shutting down for landing to prevent overspeed. In the second case, the back up switch is used to operate the EBCAU and a normal landing can be maded without abrupt power changes.
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212man
I wouldn't argue with you on this one. Like I said I don't get to play with the 155's much at all so I don't keep track of all the goodies on them. What you say though sounds normal. I still wish the 130 was set up the same as the 155 as you describe it where you would get an indication if you lose one channel.
Max
I wouldn't argue with you on this one. Like I said I don't get to play with the 155's much at all so I don't keep track of all the goodies on them. What you say though sounds normal. I still wish the 130 was set up the same as the 155 as you describe it where you would get an indication if you lose one channel.
Max
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EC 130 B4 - Increased Baggage Compartment
I am looking for info on the STC/Mod for increasing the baggage
compartment size on the B4, similar to the mod on the B2,B3. I have received one picture but have no spec's on performance implication or volume gained.
Need it to convince my boss that it's worth upgrading to. He is sold on EC120 Colibri luggage space, but does not understand the implication of payload versus range. Typical 4 Gholfbags/or luggage for 4 international travellers.
compartment size on the B4, similar to the mod on the B2,B3. I have received one picture but have no spec's on performance implication or volume gained.
Need it to convince my boss that it's worth upgrading to. He is sold on EC120 Colibri luggage space, but does not understand the implication of payload versus range. Typical 4 Gholfbags/or luggage for 4 international travellers.
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SANAE1249,
I guess you're talking about the Cargo Pods for the EC130-B4.
This option has been developped and approved by Eurocopter Canada. It's currently STC in Canada (SH03-33) and in the US (SR2016NY).
There is no performance penalty (rate of climb, cruise, hover). It's compatible with the LH sliding door and the increase of volume is 0.12 cubic meter (approx). TOTAL is now 0.245 + 0.12 = 0.365 cubic meter.
The big advantage is that the cargo compartment becomes more or less a cube. So you can carry bulky luggage. For info you can take the 2 forward seats and put them in one cargo pod. It fits !
Mr Selfish
You\'re right for the AS350 Cargo Pods (not compatible with sliding door). However the EC130 Cargo Pods are.
I guess you're talking about the Cargo Pods for the EC130-B4.
This option has been developped and approved by Eurocopter Canada. It's currently STC in Canada (SH03-33) and in the US (SR2016NY).
There is no performance penalty (rate of climb, cruise, hover). It's compatible with the LH sliding door and the increase of volume is 0.12 cubic meter (approx). TOTAL is now 0.245 + 0.12 = 0.365 cubic meter.
The big advantage is that the cargo compartment becomes more or less a cube. So you can carry bulky luggage. For info you can take the 2 forward seats and put them in one cargo pod. It fits !
Mr Selfish
You\'re right for the AS350 Cargo Pods (not compatible with sliding door). However the EC130 Cargo Pods are.
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mickjoebill, widgeon
Are we still talking about the EC130 or AS350 ?
Mickjoebill: you're wrong for operation with sliding door removed. Operations with RH sliding door removed is approved on both type with or without front pilot door installed.
AS350B3 Vne with RH sliding door off and RH pilot door off is 100 KIAS. with RH sliding door off and RH pilot door on Vne is 110 KIAS.
EC130B4 Vne with LH sliding door off and LH pilot door off is 90 KIAS. with LH sliding door off and LH pilot door on Vne is 110 KIAS.
Now for the EC130 with ECL (Eurocopter Canada) Cargo Pod installed, the sliding door slides on the pod. The rail is relocated on the pod making the sliding door compatible with the pod.
Are we still talking about the EC130 or AS350 ?
Mickjoebill: you're wrong for operation with sliding door removed. Operations with RH sliding door removed is approved on both type with or without front pilot door installed.
AS350B3 Vne with RH sliding door off and RH pilot door off is 100 KIAS. with RH sliding door off and RH pilot door on Vne is 110 KIAS.
EC130B4 Vne with LH sliding door off and LH pilot door off is 90 KIAS. with LH sliding door off and LH pilot door on Vne is 110 KIAS.
Now for the EC130 with ECL (Eurocopter Canada) Cargo Pod installed, the sliding door slides on the pod. The rail is relocated on the pod making the sliding door compatible with the pod.
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Does anybody have any pictures of a EC 130B4 flying with this STC implemented? I have received some close-up pictures of the pods fitted on an aircraft, but would like to see some taken from different aspects. Any contact details of owner/operators will be greatly appreciated.
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EC 130 Corner
Hi buddys,
Is anybody of us able to provide some tips about EC130. I am thinking about things like shortcuts, or Excel files able to calculate weight and balance, or electronic flight manual, and so on.
Is there any EC130 users association in the world ?
Rgds.
Nemo'
Is anybody of us able to provide some tips about EC130. I am thinking about things like shortcuts, or Excel files able to calculate weight and balance, or electronic flight manual, and so on.
Is there any EC130 users association in the world ?
Rgds.
Nemo'
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To the GOV lights.
Assuming that the B3 and B4 share the same powertrain and controls.
On the latest Transition course manual (stamped 02.Oct.2006) for the B3:
A red GOV light means "Major governor failure"
Actions:
Emergency mode automatically self-engages.
(Yellow)GOV illuminates.
....and so on
A yellow GOV light means "Minor FADEC failure"
Action:
Governing function degraded: Avoid abrupt power changes .....
3top
Assuming that the B3 and B4 share the same powertrain and controls.
On the latest Transition course manual (stamped 02.Oct.2006) for the B3:
A red GOV light means "Major governor failure"
Actions:
Emergency mode automatically self-engages.
(Yellow)GOV illuminates.
....and so on
A yellow GOV light means "Minor FADEC failure"
Action:
Governing function degraded: Avoid abrupt power changes .....
3top
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3 Top,
The new style B3 with the 2B1 engine is axactly like the B4. Identical powertrain sans a few input differences from the airframe side. This is a good way to identify your actions in the case of a gov issue in flight. Since the new B3 and the 130 are dual channel and totally fly by wire EC installed a thrid back up system called the EBCAU. In the case of a single channel failure you will get nothing as it is considered a loss of redundancy and indicated after shut down. If you lose a signal to the DECU that has no back up then the system switches to a back up law. Basically it assumes a conservative number to replace the actual value that is missing. In this case it gives you the steady amber gov light in flight. This means things will work as advertised but it may be slow to respond or possibly not produce full N1 speed if asked. In this case...keep going but dont try to land on top of Everest!
If you get a dual channel failure you will imediately get the red gov light. This means the stepper motor is frozen in place. The same out put from the DECU that turns on that red light energizes the EBCAU and sets it into motion to govern fuel flow. Once it is activated it send s a signal to the panel to illumintate the amber gov light which is your indication that you are once again flying in the degraded mode. Like you said no abrupt power changes.
If for some reason you get the red gov light and no amber light then you have a problem. At this point nobody is driving and you may be stuck with the power setting you have at the time. I've yet to hear of it happening but be aware of how the system works so you can react appropriately.
Max
The new style B3 with the 2B1 engine is axactly like the B4. Identical powertrain sans a few input differences from the airframe side. This is a good way to identify your actions in the case of a gov issue in flight. Since the new B3 and the 130 are dual channel and totally fly by wire EC installed a thrid back up system called the EBCAU. In the case of a single channel failure you will get nothing as it is considered a loss of redundancy and indicated after shut down. If you lose a signal to the DECU that has no back up then the system switches to a back up law. Basically it assumes a conservative number to replace the actual value that is missing. In this case it gives you the steady amber gov light in flight. This means things will work as advertised but it may be slow to respond or possibly not produce full N1 speed if asked. In this case...keep going but dont try to land on top of Everest!
If you get a dual channel failure you will imediately get the red gov light. This means the stepper motor is frozen in place. The same out put from the DECU that turns on that red light energizes the EBCAU and sets it into motion to govern fuel flow. Once it is activated it send s a signal to the panel to illumintate the amber gov light which is your indication that you are once again flying in the degraded mode. Like you said no abrupt power changes.
If for some reason you get the red gov light and no amber light then you have a problem. At this point nobody is driving and you may be stuck with the power setting you have at the time. I've yet to hear of it happening but be aware of how the system works so you can react appropriately.
Max
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Engine Control by Wire..... thank you, Sir!
I don't want to know how it "feels" to Fly-by-wire in a helo (NH90).
All current off - and you are not even a Rotor-glider, ....just a rock!
3top
I don't want to know how it "feels" to Fly-by-wire in a helo (NH90).
All current off - and you are not even a Rotor-glider, ....just a rock!
3top
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Ec130
Hi Can anyone give us any feedback on to Pro's and Con's of the EC130 Mainly any maintenance issues any comments would be greatly appreciated
Last edited by corella killer; 7th Dec 2007 at 11:32. Reason: Spelling
Gatvol
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Thats a pretty big question. If your an EC130 driver, what are you looking for?
My experience is that as a tour aircraft its a great machine over the Bells. If I had VIPs I might go for a B407 or the A119. Cant comment on it as a sling ship.
Maintenance issues wont be much different than having an A-Star/AS-350.
Get some specific questions and Im sure some will help you out.
My experience is that as a tour aircraft its a great machine over the Bells. If I had VIPs I might go for a B407 or the A119. Cant comment on it as a sling ship.
Maintenance issues wont be much different than having an A-Star/AS-350.
Get some specific questions and Im sure some will help you out.
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Gidday here is my 10 cents worth,
Pro's
Great Scenic ship
Pax love the front two seats
Fadec and VEMD makes life easy
Con's
Eurocopter and Turbomeca support is ****!!
No baggage room(When carrying 7 people away for two nights)
Have to offload gas for people
Cant carry more than 60% gas when full pax when operating out of Heliports and confines.(Just over 1 hour gas)
Will run out of cyclic and pedal with wind on right hand rear quarter,Heavy and less than 30% gas.
Other than that it's great!!!
Pro's
Great Scenic ship
Pax love the front two seats
Fadec and VEMD makes life easy
Con's
Eurocopter and Turbomeca support is ****!!
No baggage room(When carrying 7 people away for two nights)
Have to offload gas for people
Cant carry more than 60% gas when full pax when operating out of Heliports and confines.(Just over 1 hour gas)
Will run out of cyclic and pedal with wind on right hand rear quarter,Heavy and less than 30% gas.
Other than that it's great!!!
Chief Bottle Washer
corella killer,
Welcome to Rotorheads
We have a thread already with some information that you are asking, EC130 here.
Good luck
Welcome to Rotorheads
We have a thread already with some information that you are asking, EC130 here.
Good luck
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EC130
Thanks lads mainly sniffing around for any common breakdown problems abnormal wear and tear associated with the machine as it will be working in remote bush area's in Australia and PNG primarily scenic opps but 3 months of fires and lift opps per year
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is the weight restriction due to engine or transmission limits ( I would suspect transmission as they have put ever more powerful engines in without major redsign of the drive train ).
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Bascically you have a B3 that is heavier,wider and with a Fenestrom.Bascically the B3 fill it up with pax and fuel and do 130 to 140 kias.The B4 fill it up with pax OR Fuel and do 110kias.Also when flying by your self dont expect great airspeed as you will reach the forward limit of the cyclic will before MCP.The Ec130 is a passengers machine not a pilots!