Robinson Servicing
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
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I agree that's a bit bizarre!
As a comparison, we charge £320 for a fixed wing (PA28 etc) 50hr check (+parts and defect rectification). That we calculate as 8 hours work @ £40/hour.
Never really worked out why helicopter, avionics and twins cost more per hour than fixed wing single airframe/engine work!
Perhaps the 5hrs @ £50/hour = £400 is a result of someone leaving school before the maths lessons kicked in....?!
As a comparison, we charge £320 for a fixed wing (PA28 etc) 50hr check (+parts and defect rectification). That we calculate as 8 hours work @ £40/hour.
Never really worked out why helicopter, avionics and twins cost more per hour than fixed wing single airframe/engine work!
Perhaps the 5hrs @ £50/hour = £400 is a result of someone leaving school before the maths lessons kicked in....?!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
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If you can't afford to pay to have your helicopter serviced properly then sell it or earn more money.
There is a lot of paperwork associated with every piece of work that is carried out on a helicopter and it all has to be paid for. I spend many hours each evening doing paperwork and I'm not doing it for fun but to pay the bills just like everyone else.
The rates you have quoted seem to be on the low side already so you really have no cause for complaint.
There is a lot of paperwork associated with every piece of work that is carried out on a helicopter and it all has to be paid for. I spend many hours each evening doing paperwork and I'm not doing it for fun but to pay the bills just like everyone else.
The rates you have quoted seem to be on the low side already so you really have no cause for complaint.
Thread Starter
"If you can't afford to pay to have your helicopter serviced properly then sell it or earn more money."
Hmmm, If you can't read the original question, earning more money isn't going to help you Chopper Doc Junior! The rates are pretty much the average or certainly what Sloanes etc charge. The paperwork on a 50 hr is minimal. Understand the Junior part of your name now.
Hmmm, If you can't read the original question, earning more money isn't going to help you Chopper Doc Junior! The rates are pretty much the average or certainly what Sloanes etc charge. The paperwork on a 50 hr is minimal. Understand the Junior part of your name now.
Surely this is about the breakdown of a business relationship.
I took my car to the same garage for years, then began to believe that they were overcharging so I moved garage.
This situation is not unusual. If they are overcharging so badly the word will get round and they will have no customers.
It is a commercial situation, they can charge what they want.
As long as they do not artificially inflate hours on a job there is no problem.
As they are quoting up front this is not the case.
No one is being forced to use this maintenance organisation.
Anybody who has tried to book a holiday when the kids are off school has similar issues, the price suddenly jumps. Market forces are at work.
To be honest I have little sympathy. I have worked in G.A for over 30 years often earning a pittance and watching maintenance companies charging less than the local garage. I remember one helicopter owner who's car tyres each cost more than I was paid a week.
I've watched maintenance outfits reduce legitimate bills after the owner has come in whining about the cost, because they didn't want to loose the business. Done that myself in fact. For the first time G.A maintenance is in the position to make a profit and pay their staff a decent wage.
If you are that unhappy move on, there is nothing worse than believing you are being ripped off.
I took my car to the same garage for years, then began to believe that they were overcharging so I moved garage.
This situation is not unusual. If they are overcharging so badly the word will get round and they will have no customers.
It is a commercial situation, they can charge what they want.
As long as they do not artificially inflate hours on a job there is no problem.
As they are quoting up front this is not the case.
No one is being forced to use this maintenance organisation.
Anybody who has tried to book a holiday when the kids are off school has similar issues, the price suddenly jumps. Market forces are at work.
To be honest I have little sympathy. I have worked in G.A for over 30 years often earning a pittance and watching maintenance companies charging less than the local garage. I remember one helicopter owner who's car tyres each cost more than I was paid a week.
I've watched maintenance outfits reduce legitimate bills after the owner has come in whining about the cost, because they didn't want to loose the business. Done that myself in fact. For the first time G.A maintenance is in the position to make a profit and pay their staff a decent wage.
If you are that unhappy move on, there is nothing worse than believing you are being ripped off.
I notice that the figures given for a 50 hour on a PA 28 are based on 8 man hours.
I would say that the work content between a helicopter and light fixed wing are similar. I believe that 5 man hours for a 50 on an R44 is cutting to the bone.
Most of the work scope on a LAMS (A) 50 is almost identical to a LAMS (H).
So if its 8 hours for a PA 28 then 8 for an R44 would not seem unreasonable. The only real difference being the hourly rate, but again thats a commercial issue.
The reason Avionics, Twins and Helicopters cost more is that the market will stand it.
If you fly single piston helicopters you need money.
If you fly single turbine helicopters you need loads of money.
If you fly twin turbine helicopters you need someone elses money.
I would say that the work content between a helicopter and light fixed wing are similar. I believe that 5 man hours for a 50 on an R44 is cutting to the bone.
Most of the work scope on a LAMS (A) 50 is almost identical to a LAMS (H).
So if its 8 hours for a PA 28 then 8 for an R44 would not seem unreasonable. The only real difference being the hourly rate, but again thats a commercial issue.
The reason Avionics, Twins and Helicopters cost more is that the market will stand it.
If you fly single piston helicopters you need money.
If you fly single turbine helicopters you need loads of money.
If you fly twin turbine helicopters you need someone elses money.
Thread Starter
Eric I didn't ask for your sympathy nor do I require it. The point I'm making is simply that if it takes 5 hours to service the heli why fixed price £400 if its £50 p/h. If its £80 p/h fine, its a really simple question. The 5 hours came from me waiting to have it done. It actually took 1 guy 4 hours but I stated 5 to cover any paperwork etc. I really don't care at the end of the day what it costs I'm just trying to understand how this has come about. If you fly heli's and own them lets face it, you're hardly on the breadline. My insurance costs more per hour for the 100 hours I fly per year so money doesn't come into it.
Quote:"As long as they do not artificially inflate hours on a job there is no problem."
Agree 110% so why can't I say I want my heli serviced in accordance with LAMS and charge me the time it takes? Why will no organisation do this? Someone must know the answer.
Perhaps you shouldn't have stayed in it 30 years Eric if you were earning a pittance but then again maybe laughing at your lost customers made up for it!
Quote:"Years ago I quoted £950 for an annual on a Piper Saratoga.
I lost the work to another outfit that quoted £900.
Final bill to the owner £9,000, laughed fit to bust!!!!!!!!!!!"
Quote:"As long as they do not artificially inflate hours on a job there is no problem."
Agree 110% so why can't I say I want my heli serviced in accordance with LAMS and charge me the time it takes? Why will no organisation do this? Someone must know the answer.
Perhaps you shouldn't have stayed in it 30 years Eric if you were earning a pittance but then again maybe laughing at your lost customers made up for it!
Quote:"Years ago I quoted £950 for an annual on a Piper Saratoga.
I lost the work to another outfit that quoted £900.
Final bill to the owner £9,000, laughed fit to bust!!!!!!!!!!!"
What I did was give up working on privately owned aircraft about 15 years ago.
I swore I would only work for people who owned and maintained their own aircraft ( actually I also swore I would never work in the UK again, but as they say never say never). By and large I have stuck to this and the end result has been a reasonable living and a lot less stress.
I notice that this months Flyer has a list of maintenance outfits with their charges, maybe the answer to our problem lies within it's pages.
I swore I would only work for people who owned and maintained their own aircraft ( actually I also swore I would never work in the UK again, but as they say never say never). By and large I have stuck to this and the end result has been a reasonable living and a lot less stress.
I notice that this months Flyer has a list of maintenance outfits with their charges, maybe the answer to our problem lies within it's pages.
Thread Starter
Perhaps you're right. I'll have to try and get a copy. Bottom line is, as long as its done right thats the main thing. Nice to have some sort of consistency though.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Luton
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Bvgs.
I have previously worked for several companies who's policly was to charge a fixed rate for Scheduled Inspections, I seem to recall a 100 Hr Insp on a R22 costing £480 @ £40 per hour = 12 hrs labour.If the job was done in 10 hours then the company gained 2 hrs labour, however if it took 14 hrs then the company lost. It is often a case of "swings and roundabouts"
I have also worked for a company who have no fixed rate charges what so ever, if a job takes 100 man hours then that is exactly what is charged
However in all the companies, the customers complain about the bills being to high
and the management would complain about the cheap labour rates compaired to those charged by car garages.
I also seem to recall that in the Robinson Manual somewhere it states the labour hours required for a 100hr & Annual Inspection.( remember there is no 50 hr Insp on the N reg )
I have previously worked for several companies who's policly was to charge a fixed rate for Scheduled Inspections, I seem to recall a 100 Hr Insp on a R22 costing £480 @ £40 per hour = 12 hrs labour.If the job was done in 10 hours then the company gained 2 hrs labour, however if it took 14 hrs then the company lost. It is often a case of "swings and roundabouts"
I have also worked for a company who have no fixed rate charges what so ever, if a job takes 100 man hours then that is exactly what is charged
However in all the companies, the customers complain about the bills being to high
and the management would complain about the cheap labour rates compaired to those charged by car garages.I also seem to recall that in the Robinson Manual somewhere it states the labour hours required for a 100hr & Annual Inspection.( remember there is no 50 hr Insp on the N reg )
