Helicopter charter company?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex
Helicopter charter company?
Hi,
I have come into some capital and thinking of investing in helicopter chartering.
Does anybody work in this area and if so could they give me some sensible ideas or tips?
Ta!
I have come into some capital and thinking of investing in helicopter chartering.
Does anybody work in this area and if so could they give me some sensible ideas or tips?
Ta!
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
If you want to make a small fortune from aviation, start off with a large one! 
And I'm not being flippant! There are many tales of woe of small businesses that have started and failed. You have really got to know this business sector and its market to succeed; I'm guessing from your post that you don't.
Cheers
Whirls
And I'm not being flippant! There are many tales of woe of small businesses that have started and failed. You have really got to know this business sector and its market to succeed; I'm guessing from your post that you don't.
Cheers
Whirls
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: England
Hawkesy
Like most aviation businesses, the helicopter charter world is extremely competitive and the initial outlay is normaly pretty huge making the risk not insignificant. That said, there is plenty of business out there even if it may be hard to find initially. Like any business start up, research the market and then research it some more. Do your sums then do them again. If you think you can do it, go for it.
I always find that when everyone tells me I can't do something, it just makes me want to do it more! Good luck if you decide to go for it.
Merlin
Like most aviation businesses, the helicopter charter world is extremely competitive and the initial outlay is normaly pretty huge making the risk not insignificant. That said, there is plenty of business out there even if it may be hard to find initially. Like any business start up, research the market and then research it some more. Do your sums then do them again. If you think you can do it, go for it.
I always find that when everyone tells me I can't do something, it just makes me want to do it more! Good luck if you decide to go for it.
Merlin
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 2
From: yorkshire uk
How much have you got to lose ? You can put some into my company which will really help next time the engine swallows a piece of metal and i get a bill for $400,000 
Oh yes it would also really help when the starflex comes up plus spherical bearings $$100,000 
PM me if yr mental
ps I did once break even with a 47 crop dusting.....around 1984 i think...
Oh yes it would also really help when the starflex comes up plus spherical bearings $$100,000 PM me if yr mental ps I did once break even with a 47 crop dusting.....around 1984 i think...
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Hawkesy:
It can be difficult, but it can also be a success. You need to plan on 500 hours a year to be viable (that is, make a profit), which is ten a week. There is staff training to be included (PPCs, recurrency, first aid), and I reckon that a husband and wife team who owned the helicopter outright and kept good control of the costs could make a living, if they had a market and, if they hired any staff, ensured they were well trained.
Two tips: make sure you get a reliable machine (206) and that you give discounts after people have done any flying - I used to have a lot of people come in the office and say they wanted to give me lots of flying and how about a discount, so I said yeah - every 10th hour free, or whatever.
Actually, 3 tips: You need to be able to pay for everything up front. Paying as you go along on anything more than about a third of the investment will kill it stone dead.
I just did an article on this in one of the helicopter magazines (not an American one), but feel free to PM if you have any questions.
And starflexes (AS 350/55) very rarely use up their full hours allowance - more like two thirds before you have to change them.
Phil
It can be difficult, but it can also be a success. You need to plan on 500 hours a year to be viable (that is, make a profit), which is ten a week. There is staff training to be included (PPCs, recurrency, first aid), and I reckon that a husband and wife team who owned the helicopter outright and kept good control of the costs could make a living, if they had a market and, if they hired any staff, ensured they were well trained.
Two tips: make sure you get a reliable machine (206) and that you give discounts after people have done any flying - I used to have a lot of people come in the office and say they wanted to give me lots of flying and how about a discount, so I said yeah - every 10th hour free, or whatever.
Actually, 3 tips: You need to be able to pay for everything up front. Paying as you go along on anything more than about a third of the investment will kill it stone dead.
I just did an article on this in one of the helicopter magazines (not an American one), but feel free to PM if you have any questions.
And starflexes (AS 350/55) very rarely use up their full hours allowance - more like two thirds before you have to change them.
Phil
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, USA
I'd buy a S-76 and start a helicopter airline flying from London to Amsterdam, Devon, Dorset, Hastings, Ramsgate, Southampton etc. Short haul, and where the communications and commuting people suffer.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 326
Likes: 2
From: Florida/Sandbox/UK
Hawkesy,
Are you starting to build up a picture here. I started my own helicopter op 3 years ago and without doubt, it has been a tough 3 years.
There are, however, great rewards.
I don't know what your background is or where your expertise lies, therefore, it is not possible to advise you either way. If you just want to be a businessman/business owner, have a real good look around at what your windfall can buy and the potential return.
My own helicopter operation is for sale. It would not suit your needs as it is in Florida, however, if you pm me I can tell you what you should expect to get for what amount of money. If you decide to follow your desire anyway, again, pm me with specific questions and I will help as best I can.
Are you starting to build up a picture here. I started my own helicopter op 3 years ago and without doubt, it has been a tough 3 years.
There are, however, great rewards.
I don't know what your background is or where your expertise lies, therefore, it is not possible to advise you either way. If you just want to be a businessman/business owner, have a real good look around at what your windfall can buy and the potential return.
My own helicopter operation is for sale. It would not suit your needs as it is in Florida, however, if you pm me I can tell you what you should expect to get for what amount of money. If you decide to follow your desire anyway, again, pm me with specific questions and I will help as best I can.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Abingdon uk
Hello vbmenu_register("postmenu_3288034", true); Hawkesy,
I put a few figures together on starting a training organisation together with the following
full time CFI
additional freelance pilots until another could be hired
Office Walla
1 x R22
1 X R44
Rent on office and hangar space
2 x helipads with unlimited landings
maintenance
insurance
loan repayments on the helis
fuel
The intention was to own the helis, run a profesional organisation and pay the staff properly in a similar way to my engineering company.
Based on a reasonable amount of hours a year the business would have lost money, based on even more hours it seemed like it would lose even more.
The conclusion to make money was :-
(1) Con some poor sod into leasing the aircraft to you - you pay them a low figure they take the risk thinking that your lease back will lower the ownership costs.
(2) Do not pay the pilots well - ie pay them by the hour not a wage, the rate you pay them per hour might seem high from outside the industry but multiply it by bugger all when the weather is bad or there is no work and it is not so good.
My reason for looking at this was I own a company and thought perhaps a nice little aviation company attached to it would give me a bit of cheap flying.
One of my instructors told me another saying - if it flies f--ks or floats rent it don't buy it - rude maybe but the first and last are probably true.
i am sure that I will get shot down in flames as I am only a PPLH - and my comments are based on running my own engineering company and 2 years seeing how an operation works during my training and self fly hire.
I put a few figures together on starting a training organisation together with the following
full time CFI
additional freelance pilots until another could be hired
Office Walla
1 x R22
1 X R44
Rent on office and hangar space
2 x helipads with unlimited landings
maintenance
insurance
loan repayments on the helis
fuel
The intention was to own the helis, run a profesional organisation and pay the staff properly in a similar way to my engineering company.
Based on a reasonable amount of hours a year the business would have lost money, based on even more hours it seemed like it would lose even more.
The conclusion to make money was :-
(1) Con some poor sod into leasing the aircraft to you - you pay them a low figure they take the risk thinking that your lease back will lower the ownership costs.
(2) Do not pay the pilots well - ie pay them by the hour not a wage, the rate you pay them per hour might seem high from outside the industry but multiply it by bugger all when the weather is bad or there is no work and it is not so good.
My reason for looking at this was I own a company and thought perhaps a nice little aviation company attached to it would give me a bit of cheap flying.
One of my instructors told me another saying - if it flies f--ks or floats rent it don't buy it - rude maybe but the first and last are probably true.
i am sure that I will get shot down in flames as I am only a PPLH - and my comments are based on running my own engineering company and 2 years seeing how an operation works during my training and self fly hire.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Lasham
Hawkesy
My top tip would be never own your own turbine aircraft, no experience of piston, but if you can lease one from an owner then by far the best way.
Having had 6 years experience of running a well known 355 F1 on the charter market, it is a complete lottery on what is going to go wrong next. We had everything from engine gearbox making metal, starflex not running to time, blades delaminating, heavy landing whilst on lease, numerous autopilot problems and finally almost the improbability of a thomas coupling failure. We were lucky as we maintained our own aircraft but over the six years almost certainly paid Mac's over £350,000 in parts and various engine overhaul shops the same.
Saying all that we averaged 275 hours a year charter at a self drive rate of around £ 550 dry, but as mentioned we did our own maintenance which was 'lost' in the parent organisation. This made it look reasonable but if contracting the maintenance out would have been a totally different story.
During my time in the industry the 'ideal' way to run this type of business is start a training school where your clients love the idea of owning an aircraft, they buy one, you lease it off them and charter, then maintain it as well. Several well known helicopter businesses started this way.
The only way to make charter work is to lease an aircraft off an owner who wants some revenue to a) make it a business and claim the VAT back and b) subsidise the cost of ownership. Many ask can they make money from this, the answer is always no, based on turbine aircraft.
If you bought a new aircraft with tip to tail power by the hour then you can accurately forecast your costs for years to come. However the interest and depreciation costs on a new aircraft would wipe out any profits from a charter operation.
After saying all this I admire your ambition, something I would like to do sometime soon, and don't forget there are many successful operators out there today. If you have the bug then very difficult to do anything else. Just be wary and if thinking of a turbine then find someone who owns one and lease it !!
Hope this helps and obviously just my opinion from my experience operating what a a well known Chief Pilot calls the 'Plastic Pig'
Regards
F09
My top tip would be never own your own turbine aircraft, no experience of piston, but if you can lease one from an owner then by far the best way.
Having had 6 years experience of running a well known 355 F1 on the charter market, it is a complete lottery on what is going to go wrong next. We had everything from engine gearbox making metal, starflex not running to time, blades delaminating, heavy landing whilst on lease, numerous autopilot problems and finally almost the improbability of a thomas coupling failure. We were lucky as we maintained our own aircraft but over the six years almost certainly paid Mac's over £350,000 in parts and various engine overhaul shops the same.
Saying all that we averaged 275 hours a year charter at a self drive rate of around £ 550 dry, but as mentioned we did our own maintenance which was 'lost' in the parent organisation. This made it look reasonable but if contracting the maintenance out would have been a totally different story.
During my time in the industry the 'ideal' way to run this type of business is start a training school where your clients love the idea of owning an aircraft, they buy one, you lease it off them and charter, then maintain it as well. Several well known helicopter businesses started this way.
The only way to make charter work is to lease an aircraft off an owner who wants some revenue to a) make it a business and claim the VAT back and b) subsidise the cost of ownership. Many ask can they make money from this, the answer is always no, based on turbine aircraft.
If you bought a new aircraft with tip to tail power by the hour then you can accurately forecast your costs for years to come. However the interest and depreciation costs on a new aircraft would wipe out any profits from a charter operation.
After saying all this I admire your ambition, something I would like to do sometime soon, and don't forget there are many successful operators out there today. If you have the bug then very difficult to do anything else. Just be wary and if thinking of a turbine then find someone who owns one and lease it !!
Hope this helps and obviously just my opinion from my experience operating what a a well known Chief Pilot calls the 'Plastic Pig'
Regards
F09
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Helicopter Air Taxi & Charter Ops
I am considering setting up my own Air Taxi operation, flying most likely a R-44 and am in the process of gathering as much information as possible about how to run such kind of operation. I know folks here come from all sorts of backgrounds and there are certainly a few of you that have either worked in this field or even managed their own business; it would be great if you could share some of your tips and experience, I am not requesting the golden recipe about how to bake the perfect pie but as it usually goes along here an informal and constructive chat about some of the key aspects of running an Air Taxi operation.
I am not specifically interested in Part 135 Ops, in fact all it would be even better to have inputs from all horizons.
I am not specifically interested in Part 135 Ops, in fact all it would be even better to have inputs from all horizons.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,111
Likes: 118
PPP
In EASA land you are looking at £ 8500 start up costs then £ 10k a year in running costs to The CAA. Plus have to write a manual, have quality manager, chief pilot,accountable manager, auditor,maintenance manager.
I have just done so, presented CAA with our manual Feb 1st, might go live if lucky by September. Best thing is to piggy back of someone elses AOC unless you want to be master of your own destiny.
R44 not that good for charter ops due to its performance. For take off you have to have nearly 450m clear space to acclerate over, so counts out lots of places !
In EASA land you are looking at £ 8500 start up costs then £ 10k a year in running costs to The CAA. Plus have to write a manual, have quality manager, chief pilot,accountable manager, auditor,maintenance manager.
I have just done so, presented CAA with our manual Feb 1st, might go live if lucky by September. Best thing is to piggy back of someone elses AOC unless you want to be master of your own destiny.
R44 not that good for charter ops due to its performance. For take off you have to have nearly 450m clear space to acclerate over, so counts out lots of places !
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 2
From: yorkshire uk
I think you are MAD !!!! I cannot see how you can make money with the CAA fighting you and pickihng your pockets the whole way ...it is impossible . Wait a year or two until they have killed off aviation ( esp helicopters ) and then try under a new regime . You will find that even a cricket pitch is deemed too small to take off from with those twats .
Lastly a Robinson is not a good machine to use as lots of people will not fly in them ................
Lastly a Robinson is not a good machine to use as lots of people will not fly in them ................
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mmm.. single engine charter in the UK? Not much of a market for that, especially in a Robinson. Huge setup costs for an AOC operation as well. Plenty of the established charter companies in the UK are struggling, or have closed, so I would think seriously about saving your money!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
From: UK
PPP
Why not consider setting up a flying club? You could advertise cost sharing flights on the club notice board and fly members anywhere with a lot less rules that would normally apply to an AOC operation.
I am not specifically interested in Part 135 Ops, in fact all it would be even better to have inputs from all horizons.