Robinson R66 (merged threads)
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A few more thoughts on our new R66 ...
Before we got it, I was worried about people getting hurt by walking near the exhaust while it's running - Not worried any more ! I've only seen one start cycle from the outside, but it was enough to convince me that anyone who was anywhere near the exhaust when the fuel goes in would get the idea and leave pretty quickly. Once it's running you'd have to be willfully bonkers to go anywhere near the exhaust.
The boot is huge. It looks as big or bigger than the one on a Jetranger, and can carry more weight than the Jetty boot (136 kg). You can still put stuff under the seats, but I don't think you'd bother. We'll keep safety items and company requirements under the seats, but it seems very unlikely that you'd ever need to put passenger baggage there.
There are some great little touches like the light which shines onto the circuit breaker panel, or the drains which catch any fuel spill or engine oil spill when you're filling those.The engine, MR gearbox, and hydraulic oils can all be checked via the same cowl on the LHS. A torch will be handy, but isn't needed if you don't happen to have one in your pocket at the time. There are steps up the LHS so you can get up to pre-flight the rotor head without needing a ladder.
The exhaust is directed somewhat downwards as it leaves the engine, but the underside of the boom, tail feathers and the tail rotor still get a fair bit of soot. Our aircraft are washed every day they fly, but we'll be painting a fair bit of that area dark to help keep them looking good.
I think one of the problems is likely to be over-enthusiastic take-off profiles. I looked at the video someone posted earlier on this thread, and I can tell you that it's just sooo tempting to do that when you first get the keys to an R66. It has so much spare power, that there's a major surprise in store for those who've spent too long easing heavily loaded 44's and 206's into the air. I suspect that's why the book limits take-off torque to 10% above hover torque - to try and keep pilots somewhere near a sensible departure profile. I'm planning to do specific work with our pilots along these lines.
Lastly, I'm happy that we still have the Robbie cyclic. When I fly a 206 or 350 for a day, I invariably end up with a sore lower back as a result of lifting my leg over the cyclic and turning at the same time to get out of the helicopter a dozen times a day. With the Robbie I just lift the cyclic handle out of the way and there's no stress on my lower back as I get out. I'm equally happy with the cyclic from the left seat, and don't have any problem with keeping my hand up a bit higher when flying from that side so the other pilot can follow through on the exercises. It's entirely personal of course, but I'm happy the way things are.
Before we got it, I was worried about people getting hurt by walking near the exhaust while it's running - Not worried any more ! I've only seen one start cycle from the outside, but it was enough to convince me that anyone who was anywhere near the exhaust when the fuel goes in would get the idea and leave pretty quickly. Once it's running you'd have to be willfully bonkers to go anywhere near the exhaust.
The boot is huge. It looks as big or bigger than the one on a Jetranger, and can carry more weight than the Jetty boot (136 kg). You can still put stuff under the seats, but I don't think you'd bother. We'll keep safety items and company requirements under the seats, but it seems very unlikely that you'd ever need to put passenger baggage there.
There are some great little touches like the light which shines onto the circuit breaker panel, or the drains which catch any fuel spill or engine oil spill when you're filling those.The engine, MR gearbox, and hydraulic oils can all be checked via the same cowl on the LHS. A torch will be handy, but isn't needed if you don't happen to have one in your pocket at the time. There are steps up the LHS so you can get up to pre-flight the rotor head without needing a ladder.
The exhaust is directed somewhat downwards as it leaves the engine, but the underside of the boom, tail feathers and the tail rotor still get a fair bit of soot. Our aircraft are washed every day they fly, but we'll be painting a fair bit of that area dark to help keep them looking good.
I think one of the problems is likely to be over-enthusiastic take-off profiles. I looked at the video someone posted earlier on this thread, and I can tell you that it's just sooo tempting to do that when you first get the keys to an R66. It has so much spare power, that there's a major surprise in store for those who've spent too long easing heavily loaded 44's and 206's into the air. I suspect that's why the book limits take-off torque to 10% above hover torque - to try and keep pilots somewhere near a sensible departure profile. I'm planning to do specific work with our pilots along these lines.
Lastly, I'm happy that we still have the Robbie cyclic. When I fly a 206 or 350 for a day, I invariably end up with a sore lower back as a result of lifting my leg over the cyclic and turning at the same time to get out of the helicopter a dozen times a day. With the Robbie I just lift the cyclic handle out of the way and there's no stress on my lower back as I get out. I'm equally happy with the cyclic from the left seat, and don't have any problem with keeping my hand up a bit higher when flying from that side so the other pilot can follow through on the exercises. It's entirely personal of course, but I'm happy the way things are.
Last edited by Unhinged; 12th Mar 2011 at 21:27.
Better red than ...
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I sat in the UK 66 today. I was told to avoid touching the starter button becuase it would run the start cycle even with Master Batt Off.
Is this right? Is there a starter breaker that stops this risk as on the 206 ? (I forgot to look)
The front seats look wide and feel like a 44 seat. The back seats and leg room look cramped. The middle seat looks like the Enstrom third seat and there is a raised area at floor level that would make it more cramped for tall types like me
h-r
Is this right? Is there a starter breaker that stops this risk as on the 206 ? (I forgot to look)
The front seats look wide and feel like a 44 seat. The back seats and leg room look cramped. The middle seat looks like the Enstrom third seat and there is a raised area at floor level that would make it more cramped for tall types like me
h-r
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Not true. If the Master is off or the rotor brake is engaged, the starter button is disabled - the same as other Robbies.
If the Master is on and rotor brake disengaged but the Igniter key is off, pressing the starter button will power the starter for as long as you press the button, but the starter will not latch and the igniter will not fire.
If the Master is on and rotor brake disengaged but the Igniter key is off, pressing the starter button will power the starter for as long as you press the button, but the starter will not latch and the igniter will not fire.
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R66
Here's another supporter of Robbo's latest turbine. I got in a couple of longish sorties at WAP and loved every second ... except the cyclic. She's fast, (125 knot at 70%) rediculously smooth and quiet. See my report in May Flyer. Out April Dennis K
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Awesome machine !
Flown it / power is great / speed good / cost to run is awesome - potentially cheaper than an R44 !
It's the most exciting thing to happen to the helicopter industry for years.
And for all those sceptics ...watch the sales !
Plug for a supplier deleted.
It's the most exciting thing to happen to the helicopter industry for years.
And for all those sceptics ...watch the sales !
Plug for a supplier deleted.
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R66
For ascj,
Would I actually buy one .. I don't have the $1million handy just now but thinking the question through, and as much as I liked the R66, I suppose I'd have to say 'No' simply because I'm an Enstrom fan and like the space, the fully articulated handling and multi-blades of the 480B. Then there is the occasional fifth seat. But to return to the Robinson, the turbine 66 was the smoothest ship I've ever flown out of thirty-three rotary types .. how much of that was due to John Mik's 'tracking' know-how, I couldn't say.
I'd bet a few bob that she will prove a surefire hit, especially with the loyal Robbo fans. But that wouldn't be the first time I've got a sales forecast badly wrong. Dennis K
Would I actually buy one .. I don't have the $1million handy just now but thinking the question through, and as much as I liked the R66, I suppose I'd have to say 'No' simply because I'm an Enstrom fan and like the space, the fully articulated handling and multi-blades of the 480B. Then there is the occasional fifth seat. But to return to the Robinson, the turbine 66 was the smoothest ship I've ever flown out of thirty-three rotary types .. how much of that was due to John Mik's 'tracking' know-how, I couldn't say.
I'd bet a few bob that she will prove a surefire hit, especially with the loyal Robbo fans. But that wouldn't be the first time I've got a sales forecast badly wrong. Dennis K
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What's going on at Heli Air?
Latest News
End of an era.
Q and Mike Smith built up a very successful company and, under their leadership, the 'old' HeliAir used to be the most consistently recommended UK helicopter school.
H.
Another one gone .....
I've been reliably informed that Quentin Smith resigned from HeliAir Ltd on the 4th March and is no longer associated in any way with the company.
I've been reliably informed that Quentin Smith resigned from HeliAir Ltd on the 4th March and is no longer associated in any way with the company.
End of an era.
Q and Mike Smith built up a very successful company and, under their leadership, the 'old' HeliAir used to be the most consistently recommended UK helicopter school.
H.
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R44/R66 Operating cost (turbine cycles)
Actually we fly an R44 II in Italy for short sightseeing tours of app. 10 flight minutes each. (sorry for my english 
).
Many passengers arrive in two to fly so we fly principally two passengers at a time. This configuration is also ideal in the R44 for weight and balance. For this reason the R66 can halve the current number of rotations with 4 pax/flight.
Can someone help me compare the operating costs (the R44-2flights/tot20min.) and (the R66-1flight/ tot10min.) considering the limits of the turbine cycles (TBO engine) for this short flights as 10 min. RHC/RR give a tbo limit of 2000 hours/3000cycles (an average of 40 minutes per flight)
Thanks!
). Many passengers arrive in two to fly so we fly principally two passengers at a time. This configuration is also ideal in the R44 for weight and balance. For this reason the R66 can halve the current number of rotations with 4 pax/flight.
Can someone help me compare the operating costs (the R44-2flights/tot20min.) and (the R66-1flight/ tot10min.) considering the limits of the turbine cycles (TBO engine) for this short flights as 10 min. RHC/RR give a tbo limit of 2000 hours/3000cycles (an average of 40 minutes per flight)
Thanks!
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I thought with engines a cycle meant switching the engine on and off, so if you are doing engine running passenger changes its the hours that count.
I think airframe cycles are lift off to touchdown, but I don't think these are limited on the Robbo.
I think airframe cycles are lift off to touchdown, but I don't think these are limited on the Robbo.
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Thank you for the answer.
Unfortunately, our problem is that we often must startup the engine during our activity because it is not continuous.
My question is, when we reach the cycles limit (I estimate in our case approximate at 1000 hours) we must overall all the turbine or only one stage while the other stages mantain the hourly limits of 2000 hours TBO?
ciao
Unfortunately, our problem is that we often must startup the engine during our activity because it is not continuous.
My question is, when we reach the cycles limit (I estimate in our case approximate at 1000 hours) we must overall all the turbine or only one stage while the other stages mantain the hourly limits of 2000 hours TBO?
ciao
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R66 Engine Cycles
Zami,
The answer is in the R66 brochure on the Robbie website.
http://www.robinsonheli.com/brochure...e_brochure.pdf
I have a R44 II and am considering upgrading to a R66, because I want to take 4 adults (including me), 2 sets of golf sticks and overnight bags. The numbers work on paper...I have flown the 66 briefly (15 minutes) and it is very nice. My intention is to get my endorsement next week which will give me more flight time to make the decision, however from what I have read here, it all sounds great.
Arrrj
The answer is in the R66 brochure on the Robbie website.
TIME-BETWEEN-OVERHAUL (TBO)
is 2000 hours or 12 years for the airframe and 2000 hours or 3000 start cycles for the engine, whichever occurs first. All life limited components have approved service lives of at least 2000 hours.
I have a R44 II and am considering upgrading to a R66, because I want to take 4 adults (including me), 2 sets of golf sticks and overnight bags. The numbers work on paper...I have flown the 66 briefly (15 minutes) and it is very nice. My intention is to get my endorsement next week which will give me more flight time to make the decision, however from what I have read here, it all sounds great.
Arrrj
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Flown it too.
Fairly smooth, not sure its worth ther extra $$$$. No more performance than the 44 when all up. 2700 all up well the raven two is 2500lb. bit more room in the back than the 44 but i sit in ther front anyway.
Fairly smooth, not sure its worth ther extra $$$$. No more performance than the 44 when all up. 2700 all up well the raven two is 2500lb. bit more room in the back than the 44 but i sit in ther front anyway.
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R66
Hmm, i am curious as to where this will fit in, private owners who wish to upgrade from 44? it would certainly need to be a cheaper turbine option if you were to fly hire. I hear the 100 hr costs are not much more than a 44 and fuel usage between 19 & 23 galls hr, i suppose that would depend on how it is flown & weather conditions etc.
However for hiring out / corporate use you would need to start with a 120 size. Only time will tell how well it does but for Robertsons sales options will include overseas military use, law enforcement will attract sales................
However for hiring out / corporate use you would need to start with a 120 size. Only time will tell how well it does but for Robertsons sales options will include overseas military use, law enforcement will attract sales................
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R66 Running costs?
I note that from the RHC website that the R66 Operating costs lists both airframe & engine have only 2,000 hours life rather than the 2,200 hours on R22 & R44, see below,
http://www.robinsonheli.com/price_li...cs/r66_eoc.pdf
However that was not the main point of my post here which concerns how RHC calculate the overhaul cost element of both R22 & R44. Taking as an example on the Raven II overhaul reserve costs are quoted as $83.18 per hour, which multiplied by the 2,200 life = $182,996 see below
http://www.robinsonheli.com/price_li.../r44_2_eoc.pdf
but if you look at the overhaul section of the RHC website for the Raven II, see below
http://www.robinsonheli.com/price_li..._pricelist.pdf
you see that the basic overhaul cost is given as $210,000
That is a difference of $27,800 or $12.64 per hour on the overhaul reserve bringing the hourly overhaul allowance up to $95.82.
Similar differences apply to the R22.
Now, am I missing something here? I am unable to see how both figures can be correct
Are PPRruners able to enlighten me and should we take as gospel the overhaul reserve figures quoted by RHC for the R66?
http://www.robinsonheli.com/price_li...cs/r66_eoc.pdf
However that was not the main point of my post here which concerns how RHC calculate the overhaul cost element of both R22 & R44. Taking as an example on the Raven II overhaul reserve costs are quoted as $83.18 per hour, which multiplied by the 2,200 life = $182,996 see below
http://www.robinsonheli.com/price_li.../r44_2_eoc.pdf
but if you look at the overhaul section of the RHC website for the Raven II, see below
http://www.robinsonheli.com/price_li..._pricelist.pdf
you see that the basic overhaul cost is given as $210,000
That is a difference of $27,800 or $12.64 per hour on the overhaul reserve bringing the hourly overhaul allowance up to $95.82.
Similar differences apply to the R22.
Now, am I missing something here? I am unable to see how both figures can be correct
Are PPRruners able to enlighten me and should we take as gospel the overhaul reserve figures quoted by RHC for the R66?
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Running costs
Peter,
the 83.18 US$/FH are the hourly reserve for the two kits and the estimated 240 manhours required to carry out the job. Most Robinson Service Centres around the world can do the overhaul. If you take your aircraft to a place where labour cost is lower (higher) you might allocate a lower (higher) reserve. Be mindful that 240 MH is a suggested figure and any Service Centre will use that as a minimum.
The overhaul at the factory is an altogether different process, where the aircraft is stripped down, inspected and put through the assembly line, to include full repaint of the exterior. At the end of the process the aircraft really looks brand new. This of course attracts a higher cost, which is the one mentioned in the Overhaul Price list, but equally a higher value to the a/c.
I hope it clarifies your concerns.
the 83.18 US$/FH are the hourly reserve for the two kits and the estimated 240 manhours required to carry out the job. Most Robinson Service Centres around the world can do the overhaul. If you take your aircraft to a place where labour cost is lower (higher) you might allocate a lower (higher) reserve. Be mindful that 240 MH is a suggested figure and any Service Centre will use that as a minimum.
The overhaul at the factory is an altogether different process, where the aircraft is stripped down, inspected and put through the assembly line, to include full repaint of the exterior. At the end of the process the aircraft really looks brand new. This of course attracts a higher cost, which is the one mentioned in the Overhaul Price list, but equally a higher value to the a/c.
I hope it clarifies your concerns.