St Kilda helipad
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St Kilda helipad
Since Qinetiq took over the running of the landing site on St Kilda, I've heard that it's not no longer possible to obtain landing permission for non-official flights, but that's just bar gossip.
Does anyone know if landing authorisation is available in the Private category? How about in Public Transport category?
Any PDG people care to give a bit of advice?
Does anyone know if landing authorisation is available in the Private category? How about in Public Transport category?
Any PDG people care to give a bit of advice?
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I can't answer your question, Low Flier, but I have some advice for you: if you ever have the opportunity of flying to St Kilda - run like hell in the opposite direction.
Terrible place to which to fly. No, not terrible - terrifying.
Terrible place to which to fly. No, not terrible - terrifying.
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Farmer 1, whats the problem with St Kilda, have they moved the pad?
Many years ago I used to fly there with the S61, the helipad was in a bowl with hills on three sides but knowing how the wind worked we could use the hills if required, I don't recall having problems. It was not the easiest landing site I have used but I have operated to many that were much more difficult.
Many years ago I used to fly there with the S61, the helipad was in a bowl with hills on three sides but knowing how the wind worked we could use the hills if required, I don't recall having problems. It was not the easiest landing site I have used but I have operated to many that were much more difficult.
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Low Flier – Qinetiq renewed their agreement with the National Trust to lease St Kilda quite recently. My understanding is that part of the deal restricted the number of helicopter flights, which has made it difficult to get permission to fly there. I think this is why you will struggle to get land owners permission.
The National Trust are quite particular about the island - to give you an example I had a flight with a film crew from Wales doing a program on the island wildlife - with permission of the National Trust. The warden for the island (employed to make sure nothing is damaged on the island and to stop dogs getting onto the island from boats) came to make sure I didn’t fly too close to the cliffs were sea birds were nesting – fair enough. After 5 minutes filming close to the sea birds the camera man wanted me to fly away from the island to get some footage of the island itself. We were 8-10nm miles from the island and spent about 5 minutes climbing and descending to get some moody shots with bits of passing clouds when the warden insisted we land immediately as the helicopter noise was disturbing the sea birds – we were 8nm away from the place!!!!!
Farmer 1 - I totally agree with your sentiments about landing in St. Kilda. The grey area entering St. Kilda with a single engine failure is not pretty. Winds from the north I found the worst – anything over 35-40 knots is definitely hard work.
Check – I would be interested to know what wind limits you flew in and out of and found St. Kilda so insignificant as ‘you don’t remember any problems’. I spoke to a former Bristow pilot who gave me the company’s wind limits and they were very low – partly due to one S61 actually landing in the sea with a downdraft and then water taxiing onto the standing!! I have also spoken to the SAR pilots and many other pilots who agree St. Kilda is a very difficult place to operate to safely in high winds.
Low Flier – if you do get permission I have a couple of SOPs I wrote highlighting problems and pointers for particular wind scenarios I can let you have.
The National Trust are quite particular about the island - to give you an example I had a flight with a film crew from Wales doing a program on the island wildlife - with permission of the National Trust. The warden for the island (employed to make sure nothing is damaged on the island and to stop dogs getting onto the island from boats) came to make sure I didn’t fly too close to the cliffs were sea birds were nesting – fair enough. After 5 minutes filming close to the sea birds the camera man wanted me to fly away from the island to get some footage of the island itself. We were 8-10nm miles from the island and spent about 5 minutes climbing and descending to get some moody shots with bits of passing clouds when the warden insisted we land immediately as the helicopter noise was disturbing the sea birds – we were 8nm away from the place!!!!!
Farmer 1 - I totally agree with your sentiments about landing in St. Kilda. The grey area entering St. Kilda with a single engine failure is not pretty. Winds from the north I found the worst – anything over 35-40 knots is definitely hard work.
Check – I would be interested to know what wind limits you flew in and out of and found St. Kilda so insignificant as ‘you don’t remember any problems’. I spoke to a former Bristow pilot who gave me the company’s wind limits and they were very low – partly due to one S61 actually landing in the sea with a downdraft and then water taxiing onto the standing!! I have also spoken to the SAR pilots and many other pilots who agree St. Kilda is a very difficult place to operate to safely in high winds.
Low Flier – if you do get permission I have a couple of SOPs I wrote highlighting problems and pointers for particular wind scenarios I can let you have.
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Low Flier,
The comments above pretty much sum things up - I operate twice weekly out to St Kilda.
It is a great place to go during the summer, on a nice day, when the wind is blowing about 10kts from the SE. Any other time and conditions and Kilda can bite !! That's not to say it can't be done, but in strong winds I think it is definately one of those " you shouldn't go until you've been with someone who has done it before" pads. It is very easy to end up with four different wind speeds / directions just within the bay when the wind is strong, and trying to work out what is a safe flight profile can be tricky. It is also quite often the case that you fly an into wind approach and discover that the 400 yards just before the pad is actually downwind and or vertical !!! It then all changes again in the last 50 yards. To sum up - in strong winds Kilda is unpredictable !!! As a general rule, when the wind is strong, I always plan on being as light as possible on arrival so as to ensure the biggest power margin available. There are one or two "routes" in and out of the bay that I have discovered seem to avoid most of the bad turbulence and I would be happy to provide advice if you get permission - but that's where I think you will find the stumbling block. As Smudge has already said, things are pretty much controlled and limited these days !!!
The comments above pretty much sum things up - I operate twice weekly out to St Kilda.
It is a great place to go during the summer, on a nice day, when the wind is blowing about 10kts from the SE. Any other time and conditions and Kilda can bite !! That's not to say it can't be done, but in strong winds I think it is definately one of those " you shouldn't go until you've been with someone who has done it before" pads. It is very easy to end up with four different wind speeds / directions just within the bay when the wind is strong, and trying to work out what is a safe flight profile can be tricky. It is also quite often the case that you fly an into wind approach and discover that the 400 yards just before the pad is actually downwind and or vertical !!! It then all changes again in the last 50 yards. To sum up - in strong winds Kilda is unpredictable !!! As a general rule, when the wind is strong, I always plan on being as light as possible on arrival so as to ensure the biggest power margin available. There are one or two "routes" in and out of the bay that I have discovered seem to avoid most of the bad turbulence and I would be happy to provide advice if you get permission - but that's where I think you will find the stumbling block. As Smudge has already said, things are pretty much controlled and limited these days !!!
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I’ve operated quite a bit in and out of St Kilda over the years, day and night. I would agree with what CareBear is saying. Best advice I’ve ever had about the place is always treat St Kilda as a death trap regardless of the weather. It will surprise you when you least expect it. 
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Wind Limits?
No response from check on the wind limits used?
Just look at an orographic map of the island and it is clear that most winds have to rise over steep hills/cliffs then somehow get down the other side. This is a very unpredictable state of affairs. If Smudge or CareBear have the experience of regular flights and some kind of historical record of good or bad wind strength/direction, then they must be able to give best advice to any Kilda Virgin.
Beautiful place though. They do a great lunch if you get a chance to stop.
Just look at an orographic map of the island and it is clear that most winds have to rise over steep hills/cliffs then somehow get down the other side. This is a very unpredictable state of affairs. If Smudge or CareBear have the experience of regular flights and some kind of historical record of good or bad wind strength/direction, then they must be able to give best advice to any Kilda Virgin.
Beautiful place though. They do a great lunch if you get a chance to stop.
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Sorry DeltaFree, been a bit busy. I can't remember the wind limits as laid down in the SOP's for St Kilda, but obviously operated within them. Each individual reads/feels wind in different ways ( no rude remarks now) and for myself St Kilda did not cause me too much of a problem.
I had previously spent many years working in the mountains up to 15,000 ft, base camp was often 10,000 ft or above. We had a number of Austrian and French pilots who were only too happy to pass on tips etc. and also to teach during prof checks. Yes I had the odd fright, once outright terror, but over time I felt comfortable in the mountains but kept at the back of my mind they could bite.
Today would be another story, not too many mountains over the North Sea and I'm sure my skills have eroded over time.
I had previously spent many years working in the mountains up to 15,000 ft, base camp was often 10,000 ft or above. We had a number of Austrian and French pilots who were only too happy to pass on tips etc. and also to teach during prof checks. Yes I had the odd fright, once outright terror, but over time I felt comfortable in the mountains but kept at the back of my mind they could bite.
Today would be another story, not too many mountains over the North Sea and I'm sure my skills have eroded over time.
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Check - Thanks for replying. The reason I asked for the wind speeds you operated in is because I suspect they were quite low due in part to the incident I described with the S61.
Much the same as Carebear I have had 30kt headwind become a tailwind after being commited to land. I would be grateful if you could elaborate on your statement of 'knowing how the wind worked we could use the hills if required'?
Much the same as Carebear I have had 30kt headwind become a tailwind after being commited to land. I would be grateful if you could elaborate on your statement of 'knowing how the wind worked we could use the hills if required'?
Last edited by smudge07; 9th Mar 2007 at 11:05.
