MHS Puma off radar screen today
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News article from Malaysian National News Agency
Jeez, they've had their share of problems down there. I assume these incidents are just on the L2 and there are more on the other types they fly. Interesting that the Transport Minister would impose his own weather restrictions on the operator. Can we assume a loss of the Minister's confidence in the decision making of that company's pilots- at least with regards to variable weather offshore?
The mention of smoke in the cockpit would certainly add some drama to the decision the captain is going to have to make. Land immediately or as soon as possible sounds great when you're over the Kalahari, a bit more complex a hundred miles offshore with a significant sea state. Loss of a hydraulic system on its own is like losing any other redundant system like an engine, boost pump, transmission oil pump, etc. - an inconvenience that you hope won't get more complicated.
Curious if in training anybody ever mentions that a hyraulic leak could result in smoke.
I guess these decisions are why the captains get paid the big bucks.
charon
Jeez, they've had their share of problems down there. I assume these incidents are just on the L2 and there are more on the other types they fly. Interesting that the Transport Minister would impose his own weather restrictions on the operator. Can we assume a loss of the Minister's confidence in the decision making of that company's pilots- at least with regards to variable weather offshore?
The mention of smoke in the cockpit would certainly add some drama to the decision the captain is going to have to make. Land immediately or as soon as possible sounds great when you're over the Kalahari, a bit more complex a hundred miles offshore with a significant sea state. Loss of a hydraulic system on its own is like losing any other redundant system like an engine, boost pump, transmission oil pump, etc. - an inconvenience that you hope won't get more complicated.
Curious if in training anybody ever mentions that a hyraulic leak could result in smoke.
I guess these decisions are why the captains get paid the big bucks.
charon
Last edited by charron; 4th Feb 2007 at 18:43. Reason: grammar
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Please do not pay the slightest heed to anything that appears in the Malaysian press. In fact it is sad that anyone thinks quoting from the press constitutes a useful contribution to this forum. They are only interested in dramatising events of which they have little or no understanding with no consideration of the consequences of their misinformation. How often have you been involved in an event which was reported in the press and found that the report bore very little relation to what actually happened?
For example, to quote Bernama: "On Feb 23 last year, the engine of another Super Puma helicopter caught fire when it was about to take off from the Miri airport. It was then carrying 14 oil rig workers." I believe that I am correct in saying that this was in fact a hot engine start that did not even require the use of a fire extinguisher or any maintenance action!
Let's wait for at least an interim report before making judgments on the competency of an experienced and professional crew, who were trained to the very high standards required by Shell.
He1i
Please do not pay the slightest heed to anything that appears in the Malaysian press. In fact it is sad that anyone thinks quoting from the press constitutes a useful contribution to this forum. They are only interested in dramatising events of which they have little or no understanding with no consideration of the consequences of their misinformation. How often have you been involved in an event which was reported in the press and found that the report bore very little relation to what actually happened?
For example, to quote Bernama: "On Feb 23 last year, the engine of another Super Puma helicopter caught fire when it was about to take off from the Miri airport. It was then carrying 14 oil rig workers." I believe that I am correct in saying that this was in fact a hot engine start that did not even require the use of a fire extinguisher or any maintenance action!
Let's wait for at least an interim report before making judgments on the competency of an experienced and professional crew, who were trained to the very high standards required by Shell.
He1i
Charron,
the first ditching was an L/L1 model, not an L2, and was TR related. The year prior to that they also had an S-61 with a TR 'problem' (well cable routing problem), that force landed after take off from Kerteh. The first L2 accident does not appear to have been mechanically related (hence the references to weather limits).
Apart from hydraulic fires that SAS describes, you can get a smoke effect from high pressure hydraulic fluid atomising through small pin-prick holes. It creates a sickly smelling mist.
the first ditching was an L/L1 model, not an L2, and was TR related. The year prior to that they also had an S-61 with a TR 'problem' (well cable routing problem), that force landed after take off from Kerteh. The first L2 accident does not appear to have been mechanically related (hence the references to weather limits).
Apart from hydraulic fires that SAS describes, you can get a smoke effect from high pressure hydraulic fluid atomising through small pin-prick holes. It creates a sickly smelling mist.
Widgeon, I try not to post unless I have something useful to say and in this case there doesn't seem to be much information over and above the EC alert telex. As far as I am aware the aircraft is still at the bottom of the sea and until someone has had a look at it there doesn't seem much point in speculating.
As posted elsewhere, rumour has it that they decided to ditch as a result of the cockpit being full of "smoke" (either real smoke or hydraulic mist as 212 suggests) and not as a result of any significant control problems.
Other than that unfortunately I have no more information.
HC
As posted elsewhere, rumour has it that they decided to ditch as a result of the cockpit being full of "smoke" (either real smoke or hydraulic mist as 212 suggests) and not as a result of any significant control problems.
Other than that unfortunately I have no more information.
HC
Any word on why the aircraft sank? Float failure or something?
World of difference between atomized hydraulic fluid and "smoke"....the aroma of hot hydraulic fluid is pretty keen to most noses.
World of difference between atomized hydraulic fluid and "smoke"....the aroma of hot hydraulic fluid is pretty keen to most noses.
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some additionl info on MHS ditching
Whilst the ditching was successful, the helicopter overturned immediately in the rough sea but initially remained afloat. The crew of 2 and 7 of the 8 pax escaped from the aircraft and were subsequently rescued by standby vessels. Sadly, one of the pax did not escape and his body was later recovered from the passenger cabin by divers.
The Malaysian Dept of Civil Aviation has commenced its investigation, and efforts are underway to recover the helicopter, which is lying in approx 28 metres of water.
Early indications are that the helicopter suffered a LH Hydraulic failure as a result of which the crew elected to recover to land at Bintulu. However, soon after initiating the turn back, thick white smoke entered the cabin. It is reported that within seconds this was immediately followed by black smoke that rapidly filled the cabin and cockpit, making continued flight impossible. The crew carried out a power-on ditching.
In addition, a Service Letter (N°:1823-67-07) was published yesterday by Eurocopter. Here is an abstract:
"Following a lightning strike on the main rotor of an AS332 L2 helicopter in flight, the LH hydraulic power supply was lost.
As a precautionary measure, the three main rotor servo-controls were examined.
The examination revealed that:
• One servo-control had a significant leak from the outer seal, which led to the loss of the hydraulic fluid from one
of the two hydraulic systems.
• The other two servo-controls had a small leak between the upper and lower cylinder.
• One of the end-fittings on each of the three servo-controls had electric arcing marks on the ball joint.
The examination of these servo-controls revealed electric arcing marks on at least one of the end-fittings of the servo-controls that were struck by lightning."
The Malaysian Dept of Civil Aviation has commenced its investigation, and efforts are underway to recover the helicopter, which is lying in approx 28 metres of water.
Early indications are that the helicopter suffered a LH Hydraulic failure as a result of which the crew elected to recover to land at Bintulu. However, soon after initiating the turn back, thick white smoke entered the cabin. It is reported that within seconds this was immediately followed by black smoke that rapidly filled the cabin and cockpit, making continued flight impossible. The crew carried out a power-on ditching.
In addition, a Service Letter (N°:1823-67-07) was published yesterday by Eurocopter. Here is an abstract:
"Following a lightning strike on the main rotor of an AS332 L2 helicopter in flight, the LH hydraulic power supply was lost.
As a precautionary measure, the three main rotor servo-controls were examined.
The examination revealed that:
• One servo-control had a significant leak from the outer seal, which led to the loss of the hydraulic fluid from one
of the two hydraulic systems.
• The other two servo-controls had a small leak between the upper and lower cylinder.
• One of the end-fittings on each of the three servo-controls had electric arcing marks on the ball joint.
The examination of these servo-controls revealed electric arcing marks on at least one of the end-fittings of the servo-controls that were struck by lightning."
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I refer to helirider's last post which infers that the service letter relates to the MHS event. This is not the case. The service letter was issued following a North Sea lightning strike which caused damage to a main rotor servo which in turn caused a loss of hydraulic fluid over a period of time. This aircraft continued to a safe landing at its maintenance base.
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Sasless, the aircraft sank during the tow to Bintulu. It was towed by a supply boat while it was still in the inverted position (a/c not boat !) One of the floats started to lose air and it sank quite soon after that. Its in about 30m of water and it sounds like it will be on shore for examination shortly. The recent helicopter approach limits imposed by the Malaysian DCA are as a result of the previous (L2) incident off Kerteh. The aircraft floated for 2 days after it ditched and rolled, in heavy seas. There isn't a crane in the area that is available to lift the airframe, hence the tow to shore.
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.... also, I forgot to add to he1aviator's comments, the quote in the Borneo Post that the "Shell Rescue S92 flew to the scene and dropped a rescue dinghy" is not 100% accurate. We are yet to develop in flight dinghy dropping procedures. Ignore the Malaysian press.
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"I refer to helirider's last post which infers that the service letter relates to the MHS event. This is not the case. The service letter was issued following a North Sea lightning strike "
Thank you for the information.
Thank you for the information.
Perhaps this is another case where "above CG floats" could have prevented a fatality.
There is now an alert telex from EC citing the cause as a LH hydraulic fluid leak from a failed union nut associated with the optional emergency hydro-electric generator, resulting in loss of fluid and a fire in the MGB area.
HC
HC
Last edited by HeliComparator; 14th Feb 2007 at 21:18.
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Basically it is concerned with a pipe that runs from the hydraulic generator across the deck to the r/h side and has a module block half way along the pipe run (one of the unions on this failed).Detailed visual inspection required on unions. Although I don't think all L2's Have this module block can anyone confirm ?
I am told by an unofficial but nonetheless well informed source that only 3 aircraft worldwide have this fitting, one of which was the accident aircraft, leaving only 2 others in circulation.
HC
HC
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Hydro-electric system fluid loss
The Eurocopter Information Telex reads something like this:
SUBJECT: HYDRAULIC POWER
Ditching in China Sea on 30/01/07
Dear customer,
With Information Telex nr TFS 357 dated 02/02/2007 EUROCOPTER has informed of a controlled ditching of a 332 L2 in the China Sea.
The first investigations done after aircraft recovery show evidence of left hand side hydraulic circuit loss associated with the presence of a fire in the MGB compartment before ditching.
Upon the observations done as of today during the detailed examination of the left and right hydraulic circuits a significant fact is the rupture of the nut (See Illustration) of the pipe reference 332A75-2015-10 (IPC 24-23-01 fig 01 item 480) on the side of the union assy (item 430).
The concerned aircraft are the AS 332 L2 equipped with optional Emergency hydro-electric System. Upon these aircraft only some of them are equipped with this pipe and union assy.
Pending for the investigations conclusions and in particular for the laboratory inspection of the failed nut, EUROCOPTER recommends to perform a detailed inspection of this union and of the two associated pipes (no degradation, no distortion, no hydraulic fluid seepage ….).
TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER
T.F.S. N° 00000364 dated February 13, 2007
EUROCOPTER – MARIGNANE – TLX 42506F
Page 2 of2
TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO - EUROCOPTER
Sorry, could not manage to import the image, fairly new to all this.
SUBJECT: HYDRAULIC POWER
Ditching in China Sea on 30/01/07
Dear customer,
With Information Telex nr TFS 357 dated 02/02/2007 EUROCOPTER has informed of a controlled ditching of a 332 L2 in the China Sea.
The first investigations done after aircraft recovery show evidence of left hand side hydraulic circuit loss associated with the presence of a fire in the MGB compartment before ditching.
Upon the observations done as of today during the detailed examination of the left and right hydraulic circuits a significant fact is the rupture of the nut (See Illustration) of the pipe reference 332A75-2015-10 (IPC 24-23-01 fig 01 item 480) on the side of the union assy (item 430).
The concerned aircraft are the AS 332 L2 equipped with optional Emergency hydro-electric System. Upon these aircraft only some of them are equipped with this pipe and union assy.
Pending for the investigations conclusions and in particular for the laboratory inspection of the failed nut, EUROCOPTER recommends to perform a detailed inspection of this union and of the two associated pipes (no degradation, no distortion, no hydraulic fluid seepage ….).
TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER
T.F.S. N° 00000364 dated February 13, 2007
EUROCOPTER – MARIGNANE – TLX 42506F
Page 2 of2
TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO – EUROCOPTER – TELEX INFO - EUROCOPTER
Sorry, could not manage to import the image, fairly new to all this.