height limited sport helicopter
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height limited sport helicopter
I am seriously looking at the idea of a sport helicopter that flies within 10 feet or so of the ground (or water) at all times.
The thought being that it might be relatively safe staying low and slow in an experimental design. Maybe after years of testing, the envelope could be expanded. A crude design would be appropriate while testing and would be more likely to be completed than a fully airworthy craft.
It would have the capability of a hovercraft, maybe better, and would be fun for exploring the coast and deserts etc.
Any thoughts?
The thought being that it might be relatively safe staying low and slow in an experimental design. Maybe after years of testing, the envelope could be expanded. A crude design would be appropriate while testing and would be more likely to be completed than a fully airworthy craft.
It would have the capability of a hovercraft, maybe better, and would be fun for exploring the coast and deserts etc.
Any thoughts?
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Why not just buy an R-22 and cut three feet off each rotor blade?
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At 10 feet? How fast do you want to fly? Would not give you lots of time to react to an engine failure, wouldn't it?
It will be interesting to see what kind of ideas people will come up with.
It will be interesting to see what kind of ideas people will come up with.
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Height limited sports helicopter
Slowrotor. You are not alone with this line of thought. Many might argue as they have in the past with me. Whats the point in a machine that is limited to little more height than a high jumper can clear, how is the height limit enforced etc,etc. I have heard all the arguments! However, when one considers what most people do when they fly helicopters for fun is:-
1. Want to take off and land often preferably in front of friends
2. Hover as much as possible because its good fun
3. Fly very low and slow, again because its fun
4. Give it a rub over and stand back and admire
5 Be able to say truthfully in the pub. Fish? not me mate, fly!
What they rarely mention is the arm and leg it costs to hire the machine. The financial risks if they bend something . The frustration of weather and availability or not, as the case may be.
Numbers one to four are hard to achieve unless you own five hundred acres and have unlimited funds. SO YES!! Light, reliable, affordable, machine capable of autorotation from its permitted height limit. It has got to come eventually. Do as I am doing. Make one, prove it, badger the rule makers till they give in. Lets face it, who would have thought years ago that two people of the same sex could get married!!
1. Want to take off and land often preferably in front of friends
2. Hover as much as possible because its good fun
3. Fly very low and slow, again because its fun
4. Give it a rub over and stand back and admire
5 Be able to say truthfully in the pub. Fish? not me mate, fly!
What they rarely mention is the arm and leg it costs to hire the machine. The financial risks if they bend something . The frustration of weather and availability or not, as the case may be.
Numbers one to four are hard to achieve unless you own five hundred acres and have unlimited funds. SO YES!! Light, reliable, affordable, machine capable of autorotation from its permitted height limit. It has got to come eventually. Do as I am doing. Make one, prove it, badger the rule makers till they give in. Lets face it, who would have thought years ago that two people of the same sex could get married!!
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Originally Posted by slowrotor
I am seriously looking at the idea of a sport helicopter that flies within 10 feet or so of the ground (or water) at all times.
Then again if you want to avoid collective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl1CssG_7bg
From site:
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10808
Mart
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That is a cool looking machine...
Bug,
Have you had to derate the BMW motorbike engine, or was does it have the required durability at full throttle/rpm? How much of the R22 swashplate system do you think you can adapt for the ring rotor?
Just a thought, design it to have full helicopter capabilities but fit my previously discussed idea.
The reason would be twofold:
1.A low hours pilot will not be caught out by an actual engine failure, so insurance can be nice and inexpensive.
2.The height the machine can obtain controlable, to keep CAA/FAA happy.
This leaves you free to develope the machine, in the full knowledge that in the future you can market a full helicopter. In the interim folks like myself can accumulate lots of inexpensive hours really getting to grips with helicopter handling near the ground. Either way you win.
Mart
Have you had to derate the BMW motorbike engine, or was does it have the required durability at full throttle/rpm? How much of the R22 swashplate system do you think you can adapt for the ring rotor?
Just a thought, design it to have full helicopter capabilities but fit my previously discussed idea.
The reason would be twofold:
1.A low hours pilot will not be caught out by an actual engine failure, so insurance can be nice and inexpensive.
2.The height the machine can obtain controlable, to keep CAA/FAA happy.
This leaves you free to develope the machine, in the full knowledge that in the future you can market a full helicopter. In the interim folks like myself can accumulate lots of inexpensive hours really getting to grips with helicopter handling near the ground. Either way you win.
Mart
Last edited by Graviman; 20th Dec 2006 at 20:24. Reason: Typo
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But to keep the CAA happy, this so-called "height limited" flight envelope must allow the pilot to comply with the 500 ft rule. Perhaps it should be optimised to fly best at 501 feet? 
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Thanks for the replies.... a windstorm knocked out my power yesterday.
Shytorque- I want low power and no more noise than an car. A low level machine would have to be quiet.
Bitmonx- I am not sure about a safe top speed at 10 feet, maybe 20-25mph, like the powered parachutes. Anything faster than 4mph would beat a kayak. 15mph would beat most boats.
Bugdevheli- I am glad world still has people with whacky ideas like you. (and me).
Hillerbee- gyrocopter? No! Must hover.
Graviman- I would limit the height by choice I think. Just like I don't fly at night by personal choice. Another idea would be to adjust the machine to only fly in ground effect.
I don't have any details yet. Just had the idea that I might be able to build a crude craft, where the idea of designing a fully operational helo would be almost impossible for one person like me. The human powered aircraft were similar in that they were crude and stayed low and slow.
I am thinking the basic design would be:
1) Rotor about 28ft and 200rpm for quiet and slow reaction at low rpm.
2) small low cost engine 25hp
3) use available gears, belts etc. from auto or tractor or whatever.
4) cost about $5000 for parts.
Thanks for your input everybody
slowrotor
Shytorque- I want low power and no more noise than an car. A low level machine would have to be quiet.
Bitmonx- I am not sure about a safe top speed at 10 feet, maybe 20-25mph, like the powered parachutes. Anything faster than 4mph would beat a kayak. 15mph would beat most boats.
Bugdevheli- I am glad world still has people with whacky ideas like you. (and me).
Hillerbee- gyrocopter? No! Must hover.
Graviman- I would limit the height by choice I think. Just like I don't fly at night by personal choice. Another idea would be to adjust the machine to only fly in ground effect.
I don't have any details yet. Just had the idea that I might be able to build a crude craft, where the idea of designing a fully operational helo would be almost impossible for one person like me. The human powered aircraft were similar in that they were crude and stayed low and slow.
I am thinking the basic design would be:
1) Rotor about 28ft and 200rpm for quiet and slow reaction at low rpm.
2) small low cost engine 25hp
3) use available gears, belts etc. from auto or tractor or whatever.
4) cost about $5000 for parts.
Thanks for your input everybody
slowrotor
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Slowrotor, in UK it's not only an issue with noise. The CAA insist (so it's a legal requirement, no argument) that aircraft fly no closer than 500 feet to any person, or anywhere a person might be. Unfortunately, in UK your low level only machine would therefore not be allowed to operate in many areas.
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Aircraft
Shytorque-
In the U.S. ultralight flight machines are called vehicles. Ultralights are not considered to be an "Aircraft" and the 500ft rule does not apply to ultralight vehicles.
Also, I have no idea how a hovercraft is regulated and what height a hovercraft would be an aircraft.
In the U.S. ultralight flight machines are called vehicles. Ultralights are not considered to be an "Aircraft" and the 500ft rule does not apply to ultralight vehicles.
Also, I have no idea how a hovercraft is regulated and what height a hovercraft would be an aircraft.
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- low power and no more noise than an car.
- 10 feet, maybe 20-25mph
- "height limited" flight envelope
- Electric motor.
- Gen-set on casters with strong 10' long electric cable to craft.
- Contact with ground, via cable, removes craft from aircraft category.
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Now Dave, y'ain't gonna have us awl hoverin' on hoovers agin is ya? 
Slowrotor, the rotor spec sounds not disimilar to R22 with diam 25.16' and Nr 530 rpm. Why not just use twin R22 rotors and run them at say 375 rpm? I just mean stacking them before we get a symmetrical discussion. That way you get away with using R22 powertrain, with engine of your choice. Top speed may go down slightly, but needs calculating properly.
In truth, i am not sure why you are not just designing a hovercraft. As Shytorque comments, such a "flying" machine could only be used in UK on say an airfield for training purposes. I don't think "pilot limited height" would wash well with certification either. As far as i know hovercraft are only regulated in that they cannot be used on public roads.
Mart
Slowrotor, the rotor spec sounds not disimilar to R22 with diam 25.16' and Nr 530 rpm. Why not just use twin R22 rotors and run them at say 375 rpm? I just mean stacking them before we get a symmetrical discussion. That way you get away with using R22 powertrain, with engine of your choice. Top speed may go down slightly, but needs calculating properly.
In truth, i am not sure why you are not just designing a hovercraft. As Shytorque comments, such a "flying" machine could only be used in UK on say an airfield for training purposes. I don't think "pilot limited height" would wash well with certification either. As far as i know hovercraft are only regulated in that they cannot be used on public roads.
Mart
Last edited by Graviman; 18th Dec 2006 at 11:27. Reason: Forgot discussions about solidity ratio...
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slowrotor,
You may find this of interest. Dick DeGraw's Synchrocopter
I think he had 2 - 300 hrs of flying time on it.
Dave
You may find this of interest. Dick DeGraw's Synchrocopter
I think he had 2 - 300 hrs of flying time on it.
Dave
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RIG
I did some research on a category of craft called WIG (wing in ground effect).
They fly at about 10 feet usually over water. They have limited use, but also have certain some advantages. Google search WIG for info.
I think a rotor in ground effect (RIG) would be a new category of aircraft that I propose here. I am not sure if a RIG has ever been built.
A RIG would have the ability to VTOL, rather than the long takeoff of a WIG.
So a RIG would have many uses for scientific exploration, rescue, crop dusting etc.
New category to work on !
slowrotor
They fly at about 10 feet usually over water. They have limited use, but also have certain some advantages. Google search WIG for info.
I think a rotor in ground effect (RIG) would be a new category of aircraft that I propose here. I am not sure if a RIG has ever been built.
A RIG would have the ability to VTOL, rather than the long takeoff of a WIG.
So a RIG would have many uses for scientific exploration, rescue, crop dusting etc.
New category to work on !
slowrotor
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Dave, I'm always amazed how compact intermeshers look without that tail rotor.
Slowrotor, what you describe still sounds to me like a hovercraft. The big problem is going to be protecting the rotor, this leads to a ducted fan. By the time you are finished i think you just find a way to take the hovercraft concept and push down machine weight and "disk" loading. Since the machine will have greater versatility (no skirt etc) call it the versacraft.
Mart
Slowrotor, what you describe still sounds to me like a hovercraft. The big problem is going to be protecting the rotor, this leads to a ducted fan. By the time you are finished i think you just find a way to take the hovercraft concept and push down machine weight and "disk" loading. Since the machine will have greater versatility (no skirt etc) call it the versacraft.
Mart