Insufficient flying
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Insufficient flying
Hi,
Have tried to find some numbers or guidelines on what could be considered insufficient flying time annually for a proffessional pilot in a HEMS/SAR role. Lets say for example for an operation includining a complex aircraft(helicopter), multi-engine, multi-crew in JAA land.
It can be read in the JAA Atpl theory books by Oxford in Human Performance and Limitations (revised edition) the following:
A. Organisational Stress Suorses in Pilots;
- Insufficient hands-on flying. Of significance is insufficient flying. A pilot flying the maximum allowable duty hours may obtained as little as one hour actual hands-on control per month.
B. Human Reliability, Errors and their Generation;
- Error Generation can be caused by internal or external factors. Among internal factors is: Lack of practice (deterioration effect).
Also, a NATO Review from Autumn 2002 states; "In 2000, Romanian Chief-of-Staff General acknowledged that 70 per cent of Romania's air force pilots were not operational due to insufficient flying time. Hungarian pilots fly an average of between 50 and 75 hours a year. In comparison, the US Air Force considers 100 hours flying time a year a dangerously low amount."
Insufficient flying time/lack of practice is a topic in the JAA theoretical syllabi. But from where could a pilot or organisation get some further guidelines of safe limits of annual flight time, so we could have a chance to deal with this issue in a safe way??
Thanks
Have tried to find some numbers or guidelines on what could be considered insufficient flying time annually for a proffessional pilot in a HEMS/SAR role. Lets say for example for an operation includining a complex aircraft(helicopter), multi-engine, multi-crew in JAA land.
It can be read in the JAA Atpl theory books by Oxford in Human Performance and Limitations (revised edition) the following:
A. Organisational Stress Suorses in Pilots;
- Insufficient hands-on flying. Of significance is insufficient flying. A pilot flying the maximum allowable duty hours may obtained as little as one hour actual hands-on control per month.
B. Human Reliability, Errors and their Generation;
- Error Generation can be caused by internal or external factors. Among internal factors is: Lack of practice (deterioration effect).
Also, a NATO Review from Autumn 2002 states; "In 2000, Romanian Chief-of-Staff General acknowledged that 70 per cent of Romania's air force pilots were not operational due to insufficient flying time. Hungarian pilots fly an average of between 50 and 75 hours a year. In comparison, the US Air Force considers 100 hours flying time a year a dangerously low amount."
Insufficient flying time/lack of practice is a topic in the JAA theoretical syllabi. But from where could a pilot or organisation get some further guidelines of safe limits of annual flight time, so we could have a chance to deal with this issue in a safe way??
Thanks
Especially in the HEMS Business the pure flying time is not the point, the number of missions is essential for being current and safe. One mission about 2 to 3 T/O and Landings ( mostly in unknown Landingsites ) and some minutes enroute ( I think the average flying time for one primary rescue mission here in Germany is about 20 up to 30 minutes ) is normal.
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Hi Skadi,
Thanks for your reply! How many missions do you fly in average per month and do your company have any kind of guidelines for minimum amount of missions per mounth??
Vertolot
Thanks for your reply! How many missions do you fly in average per month and do your company have any kind of guidelines for minimum amount of missions per mounth??
Vertolot
Hi Vertolot,
it's dificult to tie safetymatters to minimum flying hours.
Safe flying is up to the pilot - it's in his head. Read accident reports - well above 90% of the accidents are do to pilot error.
It doesn't mean, that you make less mistakes, if you fly more ;-)
Another point - the experiance and capability of the pilot himself.
If you have a lowtimer - well, 100 hrs/year is much to less.
If you have a hightimer - he might be happy with 50 hrs or so a year.
Personally - I do less then 100 hrs PIC - and about the same amount as a Co - a year.
Covering three types, 1/3rd night flying of that, holding my instrument rating....
But - I have the benefit of visiting a full flight simulator every one to two years; doing some hours of freelancing with take offs and landings every 6 min or so and stuff like that, so that I feel safe.
It would like more flying - it's my job, not waiting at the base - but if there are no missions - tough ****.
Back to the topic - as a Co I could see, that pilot perfomance can be degraded, if a pilot flies less than 100 hrs/year - but it isn't a law, because I 've also seen pilots with keep up their performance with about 50 hrs/year.
If flying hrs decrease, you have to look at the individual - doing company checks to evaluate the shortcomings, so that these could be counteracted by training.
Not just asking for more hours. A transit flight, done by George, the autopilot, could log two to thee extra hours - with hardly any benefit, while an hour intense training of engine failures in the hillsides will improve your capability to judge
landingsites and how to get there out of different hights / speeds and so on.
Greetings
Flying Bull"
it's dificult to tie safetymatters to minimum flying hours.
Safe flying is up to the pilot - it's in his head. Read accident reports - well above 90% of the accidents are do to pilot error.
It doesn't mean, that you make less mistakes, if you fly more ;-)
Another point - the experiance and capability of the pilot himself.
If you have a lowtimer - well, 100 hrs/year is much to less.
If you have a hightimer - he might be happy with 50 hrs or so a year.
Personally - I do less then 100 hrs PIC - and about the same amount as a Co - a year.
Covering three types, 1/3rd night flying of that, holding my instrument rating....
But - I have the benefit of visiting a full flight simulator every one to two years; doing some hours of freelancing with take offs and landings every 6 min or so and stuff like that, so that I feel safe.
It would like more flying - it's my job, not waiting at the base - but if there are no missions - tough ****.
Back to the topic - as a Co I could see, that pilot perfomance can be degraded, if a pilot flies less than 100 hrs/year - but it isn't a law, because I 've also seen pilots with keep up their performance with about 50 hrs/year.
If flying hrs decrease, you have to look at the individual - doing company checks to evaluate the shortcomings, so that these could be counteracted by training.
Not just asking for more hours. A transit flight, done by George, the autopilot, could log two to thee extra hours - with hardly any benefit, while an hour intense training of engine failures in the hillsides will improve your capability to judge
landingsites and how to get there out of different hights / speeds and so on.
Greetings
Flying Bull"
Hi Vertolot,
we do not have any extra guidelines for minimum monthly missions, just the normal JAR requirements, i. e. 3 T/O and Ldgs in 90 Days and so on.
I'm flying about 500 missions a year and logging about 250 hrs.
Skadi
we do not have any extra guidelines for minimum monthly missions, just the normal JAR requirements, i. e. 3 T/O and Ldgs in 90 Days and so on.
I'm flying about 500 missions a year and logging about 250 hrs.
Skadi
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Flying Bull and Skadi,
Flying about 250 hrs a year seems to be OK. I have thought for my self that 200 hrs a year is kind of "safe limit" for sufficient flying (haven't thought the number in missions per year, but this of course is of big importance in HEMS operation).
In the JAA world where there is no commonly agreed Subpart Q in the JAR-OPS3, most of the member countries have made their own national legislation dealing with Working time. As I understand the working time legislation covered on SubQ JAR-OPS3 should be effective for JAR-OPS Opertion. In some countries now the National Working Time legislation covers ALL flying. I.e. it´s not possible to freelance for example as an instructor (Charter, Aerial Work and Flight Instruction considered as Working time).
This will have the consequense that pilots that are doing HEMS can only do this as the duty time will be full (all stand-by time calculated as working time). No freelancing possible. Pilots who are instructors as well have no chance to keep current their FI rating what comes to the flight experience set out in the JAR-FCL2.
So, the question will be:
Is a pilot that flying HEMS/SAR current and safe with an absolute maximum annual flying time of lets say 130 hrs. a year/ 60-80 missions a year in a multi-crew role which about half of the time is spent as PNF??
All opinions welcome!
PS.Is there anybody out there who knows what the future is for the JAR-OPS 3 Subpart Q?
Flying about 250 hrs a year seems to be OK. I have thought for my self that 200 hrs a year is kind of "safe limit" for sufficient flying (haven't thought the number in missions per year, but this of course is of big importance in HEMS operation).
In the JAA world where there is no commonly agreed Subpart Q in the JAR-OPS3, most of the member countries have made their own national legislation dealing with Working time. As I understand the working time legislation covered on SubQ JAR-OPS3 should be effective for JAR-OPS Opertion. In some countries now the National Working Time legislation covers ALL flying. I.e. it´s not possible to freelance for example as an instructor (Charter, Aerial Work and Flight Instruction considered as Working time).
This will have the consequense that pilots that are doing HEMS can only do this as the duty time will be full (all stand-by time calculated as working time). No freelancing possible. Pilots who are instructors as well have no chance to keep current their FI rating what comes to the flight experience set out in the JAR-FCL2.
So, the question will be:
Is a pilot that flying HEMS/SAR current and safe with an absolute maximum annual flying time of lets say 130 hrs. a year/ 60-80 missions a year in a multi-crew role which about half of the time is spent as PNF??
All opinions welcome!
PS.Is there anybody out there who knows what the future is for the JAR-OPS 3 Subpart Q?
Skadi
250h/year is the most i have ever heard from german EMS pilots. All i know fly only 120-180 hours. And i believe at least 25% is "Block time". 4 minutes additional to the leg time. If you fly 500 missions and 50% from these 500 are 3-leg missions, than you have at least 50h block time, sitting in a helicopter on ground ???
Generally i believe safety is a question of practice. This isn't a question of flight hours. It's a question of enough practice in all possible kinds of missions and operations the pilot could be faced. In the normal EMS business most pilots are very experienced with unknown landing sites in their own mission area. But the most have nearly no night hours because they fly in a "sunset-is-the-end" operation.
Best example of safety are the IFR ratings. Most pilots i know (onshore) with IFR rating have never done real IFR flights since several years. Just the "under the hood" minimum flights to stay licensed. Same with longline skills. To be safe a pilot needs more than a rating or 3 flights annually.
I'm rated on several types of helicopters. Last week, i was coming from a 4 weeks holiday without any flying and i started with a night flight. A night flight on a type i have flown last times 4 months ago on daylight conditions. Additionally it was a single pilot night flight on a ship just fresh out of conversion (Glass cockpit). Of course i had 3 landings alone (15 minutes of flight time) before starting with a non flying crew to the night mission. A terrible flight! The whole time i got nervous!
250h/year is the most i have ever heard from german EMS pilots. All i know fly only 120-180 hours. And i believe at least 25% is "Block time". 4 minutes additional to the leg time. If you fly 500 missions and 50% from these 500 are 3-leg missions, than you have at least 50h block time, sitting in a helicopter on ground ???
Generally i believe safety is a question of practice. This isn't a question of flight hours. It's a question of enough practice in all possible kinds of missions and operations the pilot could be faced. In the normal EMS business most pilots are very experienced with unknown landing sites in their own mission area. But the most have nearly no night hours because they fly in a "sunset-is-the-end" operation.
Best example of safety are the IFR ratings. Most pilots i know (onshore) with IFR rating have never done real IFR flights since several years. Just the "under the hood" minimum flights to stay licensed. Same with longline skills. To be safe a pilot needs more than a rating or 3 flights annually.
I'm rated on several types of helicopters. Last week, i was coming from a 4 weeks holiday without any flying and i started with a night flight. A night flight on a type i have flown last times 4 months ago on daylight conditions. Additionally it was a single pilot night flight on a ship just fresh out of conversion (Glass cockpit). Of course i had 3 landings alone (15 minutes of flight time) before starting with a non flying crew to the night mission. A terrible flight! The whole time i got nervous!
Last edited by tecpilot; 18th Nov 2006 at 17:46.
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Tecpilot,
Spot on! And lets say having an emergency like Engine Fire or T/R Failure especially when not being really current on the flying the ship or night flying (i.e. very few flights the last 1-2 months) could be a
situation!
Here some interesting reading (from Oxford Atpl theory, Human Performance):
Skills, or motor programmes, are essential in many tasks. It is only the ability to fly the aircraft using these skills that enables the pilot to send and receive RT messages
without losing control of the aircraft
. The motor programmes flies the aircraft, the central processing unit deals with the communication. If however flying the aircraft becomes non-routine, then the Central Decision Maker is required to fly the aircraft and the transmisssion must stop.
Motor Programmes help to off-load the Central Decision Maker and thus increase a pilot's capacity. For example, a pilot in the Cognitive Phase of learning has no surplus capacity as the Central Decision Maker is working to maximum capacity.
Once the pilot has achieved the Automatic Phase, he/she can fly without conscious thought thus freeing the Central Decision Maker for the many other vital activities that have to be looked after in the cockpit. However, when the process of flying becomes non-routine (an emergency or, perhaps, even turbulence), the pilot must concentrate on his/her flying and may slip back into the Associative Stage until conditions return to normal and a return is made to the Automatic Phase once again. It can be said that stress and lack of practice are the two most common causes of this temporary transition.
Spot on! And lets say having an emergency like Engine Fire or T/R Failure especially when not being really current on the flying the ship or night flying (i.e. very few flights the last 1-2 months) could be a
situation!Here some interesting reading (from Oxford Atpl theory, Human Performance):
Skills, or motor programmes, are essential in many tasks. It is only the ability to fly the aircraft using these skills that enables the pilot to send and receive RT messages
without losing control of the aircraft . The motor programmes flies the aircraft, the central processing unit deals with the communication. If however flying the aircraft becomes non-routine, then the Central Decision Maker is required to fly the aircraft and the transmisssion must stop.Motor Programmes help to off-load the Central Decision Maker and thus increase a pilot's capacity. For example, a pilot in the Cognitive Phase of learning has no surplus capacity as the Central Decision Maker is working to maximum capacity.
Once the pilot has achieved the Automatic Phase, he/she can fly without conscious thought thus freeing the Central Decision Maker for the many other vital activities that have to be looked after in the cockpit. However, when the process of flying becomes non-routine (an emergency or, perhaps, even turbulence), the pilot must concentrate on his/her flying and may slip back into the Associative Stage until conditions return to normal and a return is made to the Automatic Phase once again. It can be said that stress and lack of practice are the two most common causes of this temporary transition.
No questions! Absolute!
But it's the situation in this business. On more sophisticated a/c it's more essential to rule the equipment and to be able to master all problems than only to fly the ship. As example on the new glass cockpit there are so many caution and advices indications. It's really tricky to have all procedures in mind. Flying in a single pilot ship at night, there are nearly no possibilities to read the dozens of papers in case of a problem.
Sometimes i feel on the older generation a/c the situation was better. The differencies between the older ships from Bell, AS or MBB in handling are smaller.
But it's the situation in this business. On more sophisticated a/c it's more essential to rule the equipment and to be able to master all problems than only to fly the ship. As example on the new glass cockpit there are so many caution and advices indications. It's really tricky to have all procedures in mind. Flying in a single pilot ship at night, there are nearly no possibilities to read the dozens of papers in case of a problem.
Sometimes i feel on the older generation a/c the situation was better. The differencies between the older ships from Bell, AS or MBB in handling are smaller.
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MightyGem,
How can one be competent if you don't fly and practice on a very regular basis? Is somebody competent today who was competent lets say 4 months ago without regular practice. We still have to remember that we often operating in a very demanding environment, especially if we also have some kind of emergency going on?
How can one be competent if you don't fly and practice on a very regular basis? Is somebody competent today who was competent lets say 4 months ago without regular practice. We still have to remember that we often operating in a very demanding environment, especially if we also have some kind of emergency going on?
thats true, you exactly pointed it out with your story ( first nightflight in a H/C not very well known ).
Whats the difference between 250 hrs Blocktime and 200hrs Flighttime? With the EC 135 i add just 1min before T/O and 1 after Ldg, so no big deal. If the machine makes noise, its time to work ;-) .......
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Vertolot
I think it all depends on yourself and your total experience. A general rule of thumb for myself: If I feel unsafe in the airframe, then I probably am. Working for a company with low yearly hours. From their side they allow the pilots to do freelance flying to maintain a high standard, but I have to ensure crew and duty times are adhered to.
Further I try and read through handeling and emergency procedures for each aircraft I am current on at least once a month.
But as you mentioned this does become exceedingly difficult with the new generation helicopters.
For myself I feel happy if I can do in the region of 350 hours a year, of this 120-150 HEMS.
Not always possible though. So reading has to help.
qwagga1
I think it all depends on yourself and your total experience. A general rule of thumb for myself: If I feel unsafe in the airframe, then I probably am. Working for a company with low yearly hours. From their side they allow the pilots to do freelance flying to maintain a high standard, but I have to ensure crew and duty times are adhered to.
Further I try and read through handeling and emergency procedures for each aircraft I am current on at least once a month.
But as you mentioned this does become exceedingly difficult with the new generation helicopters.
For myself I feel happy if I can do in the region of 350 hours a year, of this 120-150 HEMS.
Not always possible though. So reading has to help.
qwagga1
Forgive me for sounding negative - but I became a pilot because I enjoy flying - so why someone would take a job flying only 200hrs a year or so is beyond me..
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qwagga1,
I see your point and agree fully with you. It will help if you are able to do some freelance, just to keep current and familiar with "perating in the air". The problem I face and address is that in our case, it's not possible to do any kind of freelance flying because of national legislation. This means we are stucked with some 100-150 hours annual flying period. And that in my opinion it is not enough.
I agree that the annual mimimum flying (hours or missions) will depend on your experience and will also be individaul thing. But again, I'm more interesting thinking, what should the frame (hours and missions) be as a general guideline.
Thanks,
I see your point and agree fully with you. It will help if you are able to do some freelance, just to keep current and familiar with "perating in the air". The problem I face and address is that in our case, it's not possible to do any kind of freelance flying because of national legislation. This means we are stucked with some 100-150 hours annual flying period. And that in my opinion it is not enough.
I agree that the annual mimimum flying (hours or missions) will depend on your experience and will also be individaul thing. But again, I'm more interesting thinking, what should the frame (hours and missions) be as a general guideline.
Thanks,
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Ok, here is an example:
-August; 18:18 hrs flight time, 6 missions, 3 missions canceled after T/O,1 training flt
-September; 6:05 hrs flight time, 1 mission, 5 missions canceled after T/O,1 training flt
-October; 5:50 hrs flight time, 1 mission, 2 missions canceled after T/O,8 hrs. Annual simulator training
-November; 4:35 hrs flight time, 2 missions, 3 missions canceled after T/O,2 training flt
Q. Can this be considered as sufficient and safe flight time for a professional(??) pilot in HEMS/SAR role?
-August; 18:18 hrs flight time, 6 missions, 3 missions canceled after T/O,1 training flt
-September; 6:05 hrs flight time, 1 mission, 5 missions canceled after T/O,1 training flt
-October; 5:50 hrs flight time, 1 mission, 2 missions canceled after T/O,8 hrs. Annual simulator training
-November; 4:35 hrs flight time, 2 missions, 3 missions canceled after T/O,2 training flt
Q. Can this be considered as sufficient and safe flight time for a professional(??) pilot in HEMS/SAR role?
Vertolot
i understand your problem. Really low times. You are right, freelancing becomes more and more difficult in some countries due to the more and more restrictive rules. That makes it difficult to get additional freelance flight times.
As i wrote before, all EMS Pilots i know doesn't have much times. And the stake of included blocktime is high compared to the all in once time. It's absolute correct to log the blocktimes, but to start the engines/cooling down isn't a real gain in competancy. On BK 117/BO105 you have at least 4 minutes blocktime a leg.
But i couldn't see a light on the horizon to solve your problem. There is simply no benchmark.
I believe many of us are faced with this problem. As a multi type rated pilot you have sometimes only 10-15 hours a year on some types. Sometimes only 3-5h in special missions, at night, with longline,...,...,... But it's simply impossible to train crews, to train crews and to be prepared for some missions on some single a/c. In some operations today most companies have more training times than real missions.
i understand your problem. Really low times. You are right, freelancing becomes more and more difficult in some countries due to the more and more restrictive rules. That makes it difficult to get additional freelance flight times.
As i wrote before, all EMS Pilots i know doesn't have much times. And the stake of included blocktime is high compared to the all in once time. It's absolute correct to log the blocktimes, but to start the engines/cooling down isn't a real gain in competancy. On BK 117/BO105 you have at least 4 minutes blocktime a leg.
But i couldn't see a light on the horizon to solve your problem. There is simply no benchmark.
I believe many of us are faced with this problem. As a multi type rated pilot you have sometimes only 10-15 hours a year on some types. Sometimes only 3-5h in special missions, at night, with longline,...,...,... But it's simply impossible to train crews, to train crews and to be prepared for some missions on some single a/c. In some operations today most companies have more training times than real missions.
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Vertolot
Must admit would also have difficulty in staying positive in the case where I would not be allowed to do other flying. However the one time I do see that a flight made all the difference in saving a persons life, The "satisfication" of that is untold. It seem like you get a training flight each month which is awsome. Used wisely it could hone your skills to be a professional at able pilot.
Can only wish you luck, but unfortuanately the only way in HEMS to fly more is if more people get injured, and that I can not whish for. So enjoy the hours you do get and whish all other people well. That seems to work for me.
qwagga1
Must admit would also have difficulty in staying positive in the case where I would not be allowed to do other flying. However the one time I do see that a flight made all the difference in saving a persons life, The "satisfication" of that is untold. It seem like you get a training flight each month which is awsome. Used wisely it could hone your skills to be a professional at able pilot.
Can only wish you luck, but unfortuanately the only way in HEMS to fly more is if more people get injured, and that I can not whish for. So enjoy the hours you do get and whish all other people well. That seems to work for me.
qwagga1
