Union or no union
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: AFRICA
Union or no union
Do we need unions or not in the helicopter industry?
Most of us are like wilde dogs: if we don't like it here, we go somewhere else to see if it's better.
If possible when you answer, please specify in which country you fly and in which country is your top management based and what is your nationality. It's makes a big difference from one country to an other one (traditions...)
Most of us are like wilde dogs: if we don't like it here, we go somewhere else to see if it's better.
If possible when you answer, please specify in which country you fly and in which country is your top management based and what is your nationality. It's makes a big difference from one country to an other one (traditions...)
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 512
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From: Texas
I'm American, my company is American, and all I say will apply to the USA, because that's the only place with which I'm really familiar with the laws.
A union is essential, because without a contract, the company is completely free to do whatever it wants, so long as it pays at least minimum wage (about $5.75/hour) and pays for overtime over 40 hours - unless the employees are salaried, not hourly, in which case overtime does not apply. Absolutely the only way to guarantee working conditions, health benefits, and anything else is through a union contract. The concept of a fair market for labor is asinine, because there is no such thing. The labor laws are written to favor the corporations in every case. Without a union, all workers are at the mercy of the employers, for everything. There is no safety net for health insurance or anything else. Health care is a capitalist enterprise, and thus very, very expensive. It would cost well over $600/month for just me and my wife, to continue the current coverage the company offers, which has high deductible and copays, and for which I have been paying about $240/month. There is no such thing as a right to health care; you have to pay for it, and the company can do away with all benefits with no warning. ALL BENEFITS. Only a contract prevents that.
A union is essential, because without a contract, the company is completely free to do whatever it wants, so long as it pays at least minimum wage (about $5.75/hour) and pays for overtime over 40 hours - unless the employees are salaried, not hourly, in which case overtime does not apply. Absolutely the only way to guarantee working conditions, health benefits, and anything else is through a union contract. The concept of a fair market for labor is asinine, because there is no such thing. The labor laws are written to favor the corporations in every case. Without a union, all workers are at the mercy of the employers, for everything. There is no safety net for health insurance or anything else. Health care is a capitalist enterprise, and thus very, very expensive. It would cost well over $600/month for just me and my wife, to continue the current coverage the company offers, which has high deductible and copays, and for which I have been paying about $240/month. There is no such thing as a right to health care; you have to pay for it, and the company can do away with all benefits with no warning. ALL BENEFITS. Only a contract prevents that.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Hong Kong
Great - Politics. Let me play devils advocate.
"without a contract, the company is free to do whatever it wants.."
Thats what it's all about - this is America - all about freedom.
Capitalism is all about supply and demand - which means that if there's lots of unemployed pilots, wages go down and vice-versa.
There was a fire-fighters strike in the UK a few years back: firefighters went on strike for more money. They were already very well paid - and there was a huge waiting list for the job - so my attitude at the time was F*** 'em: if they dont want to work, find somebody who will.
As a helicopter pilot, i'm all for anything that will get me better wages and benefits so i'll do what I have to do; but workers banding together to influence their employers is a little more like socialism and a little less American.
"without a contract, the company is free to do whatever it wants.."
Thats what it's all about - this is America - all about freedom.
Capitalism is all about supply and demand - which means that if there's lots of unemployed pilots, wages go down and vice-versa.
There was a fire-fighters strike in the UK a few years back: firefighters went on strike for more money. They were already very well paid - and there was a huge waiting list for the job - so my attitude at the time was F*** 'em: if they dont want to work, find somebody who will.
As a helicopter pilot, i'm all for anything that will get me better wages and benefits so i'll do what I have to do; but workers banding together to influence their employers is a little more like socialism and a little less American.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 72
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From: inside
Would that make the US Armed Forces socialist and a little less American? They have payscales, contracts, pensions, insurance, college programs etc.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 72
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From: inside
Incompetence is usually easy proven in aviation.....they tend to break rules or bang up the equipment.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 917
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From: Tax-land.
Let's say that in the US, companies would rather hire a 500 hr pilot and pay him 25000$ a year than have a seasoned 3000/5000 hours captain and pay him for what he/she are worth.
PHI is demonstrating just that, so where is the negotiating ability? The only reason for the bonuses is to break the union.
If you don't like it go somewhere else, 'cause young Bob here will do the job for free.
Um, I wonder where you fly.........Maybe in a crappy place where nobody else would like to ever end up I guess.
But in the end, everyone makes his/her own bed.
PHI is demonstrating just that, so where is the negotiating ability? The only reason for the bonuses is to break the union.
If you don't like it go somewhere else, 'cause young Bob here will do the job for free.
Um, I wonder where you fly.........Maybe in a crappy place where nobody else would like to ever end up I guess.
But in the end, everyone makes his/her own bed.
