Air Ambulance - Police Helicopter
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Flash0701.
You stated that:
"the BO105 which had clamshell doors at the back to slide the patient in and out. Correct me if im wrong but i seem to remeber that they HAD to shut down to install a patient in this way."
Wrong.
I was lucky enough to spend 18 months flying a BO105 for North West Air Ambulance and we often loaded the patient through the rear doors with rotors running. It depended entirely on the situation: landing site, patient injuries etc. The Police obviously didn't want to close the road/motorway down for longer than necessary; so we would land in the field alongside, close down and the paramedics will do their stuff. When the patient was stable and loaded onto the stretcher, I would start up. The Police would then stop the traffic and I would reposition onto the carriageway. The paramedics, with Police/fireman assistance, would then 'hot load' the patient, and we would be away. Minimum disruption to other traffic on the road/motorway.
An example of good co-operation between all the emergency services.
And yes, it was/still is extremely frustrating to have to rely on charity to fund the Air Ambulance services in England and Wales. I would not wish to see the funded given directly by the NHS, for the reasons stated elsewhere on this thread. However, why each area service couldn't be sponsored by 'big business' I don't know. Imagine the prestige/PR value that BP or Shell etc would get if they funded an Air Ambulance? As for the public, in the NW we covered an area with a population of 6 million plus. If every man, woman and child had given just 10p each, that would have fuded our BO105 for a whole year! (Cost in 2000/2001 was £600,000 approximately).
bondu
You stated that:
"the BO105 which had clamshell doors at the back to slide the patient in and out. Correct me if im wrong but i seem to remeber that they HAD to shut down to install a patient in this way."
Wrong.
I was lucky enough to spend 18 months flying a BO105 for North West Air Ambulance and we often loaded the patient through the rear doors with rotors running. It depended entirely on the situation: landing site, patient injuries etc. The Police obviously didn't want to close the road/motorway down for longer than necessary; so we would land in the field alongside, close down and the paramedics will do their stuff. When the patient was stable and loaded onto the stretcher, I would start up. The Police would then stop the traffic and I would reposition onto the carriageway. The paramedics, with Police/fireman assistance, would then 'hot load' the patient, and we would be away. Minimum disruption to other traffic on the road/motorway.
An example of good co-operation between all the emergency services.
And yes, it was/still is extremely frustrating to have to rely on charity to fund the Air Ambulance services in England and Wales. I would not wish to see the funded given directly by the NHS, for the reasons stated elsewhere on this thread. However, why each area service couldn't be sponsored by 'big business' I don't know. Imagine the prestige/PR value that BP or Shell etc would get if they funded an Air Ambulance? As for the public, in the NW we covered an area with a population of 6 million plus. If every man, woman and child had given just 10p each, that would have fuded our BO105 for a whole year! (Cost in 2000/2001 was £600,000 approximately).
bondu
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keep residents of newmarket awake to recover £30 of stolen fuel.... ( Remind me how much it costs to even start a twin turb helo?...
Where in Newmarket do you live ? I am sure the police will avoid sending the helicopter to help you when you are in need.
Mess Your Passage
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I would also like to hope that the services do not sink to that level of pettiness.
Bondu,
Thanks for your clarification. My tech knowledge in this area is not 100% ( obviously)
Cheers
f
There are no limits
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What were the facts given to the Air Support Unit at the time of the deployment?
For instance, if it was simply a Making Off Without Payment - this is probably not worth a deployment, but if the aircraft was in the area, it was a distinctive vehicle, if it was involved in other crime, if it was being pursued by police, if there had been an armed robbery, if Police Officers had been threatened with weapons, a child had been abducted, it was being driven by Elvis.......
By the same token, I have experience of 'the facts' being sexed up in order to force a deployment of an aircraft for a crock of sh1t !!
For instance, if it was simply a Making Off Without Payment - this is probably not worth a deployment, but if the aircraft was in the area, it was a distinctive vehicle, if it was involved in other crime, if it was being pursued by police, if there had been an armed robbery, if Police Officers had been threatened with weapons, a child had been abducted, it was being driven by Elvis.......
By the same token, I have experience of 'the facts' being sexed up in order to force a deployment of an aircraft for a crock of sh1t !!
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Would you believe, someone tried to launch us for theft of a flapjack from a petrol station shop? As the crew, you can only give your best advice, but at the end of the day its someone else's trainset, and the hierarchy (Chief Constable/ACPO ranks) will have to take the rap from the public for your actions, so they get the last shout unless there is a safety/pilot type reason (as opposed to operational) for not going.
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OOOOOOOOOOHHHH!!!!!!!
Seriously though (for Jayrow) I agree with What Limits. You have to know the particular circumstances of the callout.
I remember looking for a scroat who had nicked a bottle of booze from an off-license. Now normally you wouldn't consider it but in this case we were in the area, 5 minutes from base and it was reported he'd made off along the railway line at night, so a reasonable chance of spotting him. He is an offender, after all and where do you draw the line as to when you don't go looking for these people. What would PC Plod on the ground have thought if we had just continued to base over his head because his offender wasn't important enough for us? (No, we didn't find him)
Last edited by whoateallthepies; 27th Sep 2006 at 05:28.
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metalman
They tell us that the swansea air ambulance costs £2m pound per annum to run,yes thats correct £2m,what a waste of money,would it not be more beneficial to more people on a regular basis if that money was used to fund a diabetic unit, a heart unit,even a trauma unit,i mean to say we have to divide the benefit into the cost,dont we? After all we have the police chopper, (why not put a paramedic on board) we even have the chivenor search and rescue helicopter that is fully equipped for almost any emergency and only 15 minutes away! And please dont give me that old chesnut "you may need it on day" as that is not an answer and it just doesnt wash!!
Just a thought,
your views and opinions please,
metalman
Just a thought,
your views and opinions please,
metalman
Very tempting, What Limits!
First hampster climbing aboard!..............
Metalmans cost/benefit views are valid........but only where air ambulances are centrally funded.
However the Swansea air ambulance is funded by direct contributions from the public. Those contributors want an air ambulance for that money and not a diabetic, heart, or trauma unit.
The relative financial merit of any charity based service does not require debate. It's simply what the people supporting that charity want. Just like the RNLI.
Police helicopters on the other hand are centrally funded.........................
First hampster climbing aboard!..............
Metalmans cost/benefit views are valid........but only where air ambulances are centrally funded.
However the Swansea air ambulance is funded by direct contributions from the public. Those contributors want an air ambulance for that money and not a diabetic, heart, or trauma unit.
The relative financial merit of any charity based service does not require debate. It's simply what the people supporting that charity want. Just like the RNLI.
Police helicopters on the other hand are centrally funded.........................
Hovering AND talking
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Thank you Bertie for putting that a lot more patiently than I would have done!!
It is an answer and it does wash. One could easily say that they don't need a trauma unit or baby-care unit or heart unit.
My opinion is that I disagree with you!
Cheers
Whirls
And please dont give me that old chesnut "you may need it on day" as that is not an answer and it just doesnt wash!!
My opinion is that I disagree with you!
Cheers
Whirls
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What's the cost ?
Some more thoughts for the melting pot :
Police helicopters : Surely there's far more to it than the relative value of the crime committed ( e.g. £30 worth of petrol )
To consider purely the value of goods stolen, or the cost of damage caused as to whether the use of a Police helicopter is justified is, IMHO, a bit narrow minded. Also to be considered should be the cost SAVINGS of Police time on the ground - whatever the "value" of the offence.
There are also other reasons apart from financial ......
e.g. It's 2 am and I see someone prowling around in my back garden - obviously up to no good - I don't think he has tried to break into my house ( yet ) and I call the Police.
The Police arrive - and see the baddie who runs off from them - deeper into the garden area and over a couple of fences. They call for "Back Up" and half a dozen of them surround the area but can't find him, so they call their helicopter to help.
At this point in time, other than trespassing ( a civil offence ? ) no-one knows what the baddie has done, if anything. He might be wanted for a string of break-ins and robberies, or he might just have the proverbially overdue library ticket - who knows ? He must have had a reason for running off so the Police ( I hope ) will want to find him, find out why, and find out what he was up to in my garden.
Without the helicopter they could spend an hour or so searching in the dark, in an unfamilar area, potentially endangering themselves - not knowing whether he is armed and about to attack them from behind the next bush .... or they might decide not to search and let him get away - who knows ?
The helicopter arrives and searches the area in just a few minutes, and SAFELY. ( Wakes a few of my neighbours up but hey - they're now all looking out of their windows too, and will hopefully phone 999 if they see the guy ).
If the bad guy is spotted by the chopper crew, then they talk a Police dog in, or light him up with the search light for Officer safety, and hopefully he gets caught. Maybe not till the next morning when my neighbours get up for work, will we find out what has been stolen or damaged etc.
Whether the bad guy is found or not, there will have been huge savings in Police time on the ground - even if he has already escaped and is not found, the 6 PC's can get on with other work / patrols much quicker, and this alone I would imagine, will have justified the cost of the Police helicopter being there.
How do you measure the savings in Police time, the benefits to the safety of the Police on the ground, the service and response to myself as a taxpayer for reporting the incident, the reassurance of all the other residents in the area knowing the Police were there looking after them, and the Crime prevention factor while the helicopter was there ?
Like I say - there's probably a lot more to it than £30 of petrol so keep up the good work
Police helicopters : Surely there's far more to it than the relative value of the crime committed ( e.g. £30 worth of petrol )
To consider purely the value of goods stolen, or the cost of damage caused as to whether the use of a Police helicopter is justified is, IMHO, a bit narrow minded. Also to be considered should be the cost SAVINGS of Police time on the ground - whatever the "value" of the offence.
There are also other reasons apart from financial ......
e.g. It's 2 am and I see someone prowling around in my back garden - obviously up to no good - I don't think he has tried to break into my house ( yet ) and I call the Police.
The Police arrive - and see the baddie who runs off from them - deeper into the garden area and over a couple of fences. They call for "Back Up" and half a dozen of them surround the area but can't find him, so they call their helicopter to help.
At this point in time, other than trespassing ( a civil offence ? ) no-one knows what the baddie has done, if anything. He might be wanted for a string of break-ins and robberies, or he might just have the proverbially overdue library ticket - who knows ? He must have had a reason for running off so the Police ( I hope ) will want to find him, find out why, and find out what he was up to in my garden.
Without the helicopter they could spend an hour or so searching in the dark, in an unfamilar area, potentially endangering themselves - not knowing whether he is armed and about to attack them from behind the next bush .... or they might decide not to search and let him get away - who knows ?
The helicopter arrives and searches the area in just a few minutes, and SAFELY. ( Wakes a few of my neighbours up but hey - they're now all looking out of their windows too, and will hopefully phone 999 if they see the guy ).
If the bad guy is spotted by the chopper crew, then they talk a Police dog in, or light him up with the search light for Officer safety, and hopefully he gets caught. Maybe not till the next morning when my neighbours get up for work, will we find out what has been stolen or damaged etc.
Whether the bad guy is found or not, there will have been huge savings in Police time on the ground - even if he has already escaped and is not found, the 6 PC's can get on with other work / patrols much quicker, and this alone I would imagine, will have justified the cost of the Police helicopter being there.
How do you measure the savings in Police time, the benefits to the safety of the Police on the ground, the service and response to myself as a taxpayer for reporting the incident, the reassurance of all the other residents in the area knowing the Police were there looking after them, and the Crime prevention factor while the helicopter was there ?
Like I say - there's probably a lot more to it than £30 of petrol so keep up the good work
Last edited by Coconutty; 27th Sep 2006 at 14:16. Reason: Edited for typo's
