Flying over London: Heli-lanes etc
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You are being naive.
When someone is cleared "STANDARD OPERATING ALTITUDES" then we expect you to fly as cleared and as published.
Yes, if we spot it we can shout at you - but there is more than one aircraft on frequency at a time (and it was under the Heathorw inbound at the time so garbled).
When someone is cleared "STANDARD OPERATING ALTITUDES" then we expect you to fly as cleared and as published.
Yes, if we spot it we can shout at you - but there is more than one aircraft on frequency at a time (and it was under the Heathorw inbound at the time so garbled).
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I strongly recommend VerticalHold's suggestion of getting checked out on the heli-lanes & Battersea Heliport (this is a requirement anyway).
I got checked out and it worked a treat (thanks RP & GW). Got a good look at the sights at the same time.
I got checked out and it worked a treat (thanks RP & GW). Got a good look at the sights at the same time.
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Originally Posted by AlanM
When someone is cleared "STANDARD OPERATING ALTITUDES" then we expect you to fly as cleared and as published.
.
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The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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The nifty maps great. Just wish the b
s would put the temporary lanes on it to save the hassle of marking it up for Ascot/Epsom 
. A quick comparison at Ascot this year showed 7 pilots with 7 slightly different versions of H6 and H8! They all went to the relevant OS grid references but all wove about slightly differently to get there, mostly on the bit between Bushy Park and Shepperton. Rather too close to LHR for mistakes that bit
The tiny drawing which comes with the brief appears to follow the railway north around Kempton Park to the A3 M3 interchange ( The way I went first time until corrected, very politely by 125.62) rather than across the racecourse to the same interchange.
Also the H6 Ascot joining point at the Temple follows the north bank of Virginia Water and not the south as a lot of guys were doing.
All pilots should now join me in storming the West Drayton bunker to demand the temporary lanes being permanently marked on the map.
I can just imagine AlanM defending the building a la Holy Grail film with Bronwen from NSFs in medieval pointy hat and Mal oiling the thumb screws and rack!!!
s would put the temporary lanes on it to save the hassle of marking it up for Ascot/Epsom . A quick comparison at Ascot this year showed 7 pilots with 7 slightly different versions of H6 and H8! They all went to the relevant OS grid references but all wove about slightly differently to get there, mostly on the bit between Bushy Park and Shepperton. Rather too close to LHR for mistakes that bit The tiny drawing which comes with the brief appears to follow the railway north around Kempton Park to the A3 M3 interchange ( The way I went first time until corrected, very politely by 125.62) rather than across the racecourse to the same interchange.
Also the H6 Ascot joining point at the Temple follows the north bank of Virginia Water and not the south as a lot of guys were doing.
All pilots should now join me in storming the West Drayton bunker to demand the temporary lanes being permanently marked on the map.
I can just imagine AlanM defending the building a la Holy Grail film with Bronwen from NSFs in medieval pointy hat and Mal oiling the thumb screws and rack!!!
Originally Posted by verticalhold
<snip> to demand the temporary lanes being permanently marked on the map. <snip>
And, yes, I'm aware that if Heathrow are on 27, the 'unofficial' Burnham/Ascot (ie H11) lane will often be granted if it sounds like you know what you're doing.
And judging by some of the comments above, it seems as if there are pilots who try and navigate through the lanes without reference to the helilanes chart. It's no wonder Special get exasperated at times!
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Bravo73;
Apologies I didn't make myself clear enough. Surely there must be some way of having the temporary lanes on the map, but clearly marking them as temporary. I'm one of the lucky ones who spend so much time in the zone that if I'm asked to forget one clearance and do something completely different I can do it with a bit of thought and concentration. Under pressure (slots, pax, company and muppetry) I wouldn't want to try the temporary routes without spending quite some time marking the map (see previous post) and studying where they go.
Unfortunately it seems not all of us do this and problems result. I have just re-read this years' Ascot brief and although the OS references are all there the picture at annex B showing the route is very hard to see clearly even when you are sober. However Annex B shows the normal routes with their normal oblong markings and the temporary routes with a series of circular dots.
I dislike poor airmanship in my colleagues and I'm afraid that I feel that getting off route in the zone or not following a clearance is indicative of poor airmanship.
However the march on West Drayton is still on. Tuesday after tea if my mummy will let me, so tell AlanM to start boiling the oil
Apologies I didn't make myself clear enough. Surely there must be some way of having the temporary lanes on the map, but clearly marking them as temporary. I'm one of the lucky ones who spend so much time in the zone that if I'm asked to forget one clearance and do something completely different I can do it with a bit of thought and concentration. Under pressure (slots, pax, company and muppetry) I wouldn't want to try the temporary routes without spending quite some time marking the map (see previous post) and studying where they go.
Unfortunately it seems not all of us do this and problems result. I have just re-read this years' Ascot brief and although the OS references are all there the picture at annex B showing the route is very hard to see clearly even when you are sober. However Annex B shows the normal routes with their normal oblong markings and the temporary routes with a series of circular dots.
I dislike poor airmanship in my colleagues and I'm afraid that I feel that getting off route in the zone or not following a clearance is indicative of poor airmanship.
However the march on West Drayton is still on. Tuesday after tea if my mummy will let me, so tell AlanM to start boiling the oil
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VH What the yakkety-yak have the CAAs maps got to do with me!?!?!? 
I have seen your flight planning and flying accuracy, and quarter mil, fag packet and a thick marker pen has always worked for you!!
Anyway - I thought that you pros refused to fly anything without a moving glass map.....
Bravo73...BRAVO AND HEAR HEAR!
I have seen your flight planning and flying accuracy, and quarter mil, fag packet and a thick marker pen has always worked for you!!
Anyway - I thought that you pros refused to fly anything without a moving glass map.....
Bravo73...BRAVO AND HEAR HEAR!
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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AlanM;
The aircraft has lots of telly screens and moving maps, the trouble is you want to be looking outside in such busy airspace, not working out which bit of kit is taking you where or getting you lost as the case might be! In fact I often think that over-reliance on the kit is what causes problems in the first place rather than old fashioned eyes out of the window, finger on the map navigation. Use all the toys in their proper places.
I know you are not responsible for the mappery we use, but the mental image of you in chain mail and dodgy french accent defending West Drayton has kept my poor brain amused all morning!
The aircraft has lots of telly screens and moving maps, the trouble is you want to be looking outside in such busy airspace, not working out which bit of kit is taking you where or getting you lost as the case might be! In fact I often think that over-reliance on the kit is what causes problems in the first place rather than old fashioned eyes out of the window, finger on the map navigation. Use all the toys in their proper places.
I know you are not responsible for the mappery we use, but the mental image of you in chain mail and dodgy french accent defending West Drayton has kept my poor brain amused all morning!
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Keep your fantasies to yourself!!!!??
Don't you heli boys and girls have any jobs to do?????????? You are gonna have to come and see us at West Drayotn and see us in the body armour mate.
Alan
Knight of the Zone
Don't you heli boys and girls have any jobs to do??????????
You are gonna have to come and see us at West Drayotn and see us in the body armour mate.Alan
Knight of the Zone
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You better get yourself ready with the armour, since I have been thinking for a while now to come and visit you down there in the bunker to find out why you can not always see me on Radar and how come it always sounds like you speak from the other end of the tunnel?
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BS - roll your dice and take your chance!!!
1. We can never see you you as The Times fits well on our Radar.
2. We sound **** 'cause we operate from an Icom in the restaurant!!!!!
PM me for visiting hours at the open prison............
1. We can never see you you as The Times fits well on our Radar.
2. We sound **** 'cause we operate from an Icom in the restaurant!!!!!
PM me for visiting hours at the open prison............
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Careful Brilliant Stuff. AlanM's working environment is not for the faint hearted! Its a world of permanent night, the light has been banished and the sound deadening is a bit like sensory deprivation interrogation.
Having spent an hour sitting at the consol with a controller down there I was delighted to get back into the daylight and fresh West Drayton air.
As for doing any work I've dropped the pax and now have two hours to kill, sitting in a field prooning in the back of the cab. The sun is shining, the birds are singing its Summer. It is as you know a total pain in the a in Winter.
VH
Having spent an hour sitting at the consol with a controller down there I was delighted to get back into the daylight and fresh West Drayton air.
As for doing any work I've dropped the pax and now have two hours to kill, sitting in a field prooning in the back of the cab. The sun is shining, the birds are singing its Summer. It is as you know a total pain in the a
in Winter.VH
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VH..... would a 20 minute delay waiting to get in the zone wipe that grin off your face?!?!?!!? tee hee
(we are of course only jealous.... it's not much fun being a pit pony)
tee hee (we are of course only jealous.... it's not much fun being a pit pony)
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Alan M.
As a London area stalwart i would be very interested in having a look over your shoulder for an hour at some point. (preferably whilst you're at work!! I mean, you sound like a really great guy but...) Is there an official method of requesting a liaison visit? I'd be grateful if you could let me know how i could sort it out!
Cheers.
Barny
As a London area stalwart i would be very interested in having a look over your shoulder for an hour at some point. (preferably whilst you're at work!! I mean, you sound like a really great guy but...) Is there an official method of requesting a liaison visit? I'd be grateful if you could let me know how i could sort it out!
Cheers.
Barny
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East London Heliport
East London Heliport
I missed the London Assembly Environment Committee meeting (I ended up filming a burning warehouse for the BBC instead) but my astute colleagues at The Wharf didn't.
From the article:
HELIPORT PLAN FOR THE EAST
Jul 20 2006
Docklands airport suggests a site to cope with rise in chopper traffic
By Lucy Walters
PLANS for an east London heliport to cater for the capital's ever-increasing helicopter traffic have been mooted by London City Airport.
The capital has only one official heliport at Battersea and with the 2012 Olympics looming large the Royal Docks airport (designated LCY) believes it is time to develop a co-ordinated approach to helicopter activity.
LCY put its suggestion to the London Assembly Environment Committee (LAEC), which is conducting an investigation into helicopter noise in London.
Airport managing director Richard Gooding outlined plans to site a helipad on the banks of the Thames.
A specific site has yet to be identified but he ruled out the airport, where helicopters would conflict with existing operations.
Mayor Ken Livingstone's London Plan says he will consider the need "of identifying sites in east London for an additional heliport to support London's economy".
LCY business development director Charles Buchanan said: "We expect to see helicopter routes extended, to follow the Thames, that will then pass through our airspace.
"By introducing a London City Airport Heliport, we would be able to enforce a coordinated approach, maximising the use of airspace and minimising the impact on the environment."
On Thursday (July 13) LAEC heard the capital's skies are congested and helicopters are being forced to fly at a lower level.
However, the Civil Aviation Authority and British Helicopter Advisory Board said the extent of the problem is not known due to a lack of helicopter monitoring.
Mr Gooding said: "The Olympics will cause a lot of demand for this type of flight, so let's use this opportunity to plan and do this properly.
"The industry needs to address this issue - doing nothing is not an option. We should be pulling together to make sure the subject is properly addressed by the Greater London Authority and the Government
"We are very experienced in dealing with the environmental impact of aircraft noise. We are prepared to put together some ideas and run with this."
LCY launched Private Jet, a corporate jet service, earlier this year and took over handling facilities for corporate flights at RAF Northolt.
LAEC chairman Darren Johnson AM said: "There is strong evidence that Londoners are increasingly concerned about helicopter noise.
The siting of a new heliport could also be a major source of controversy."
The committee's report will be published in the autumn.
I missed the London Assembly Environment Committee meeting (I ended up filming a burning warehouse for the BBC instead) but my astute colleagues at The Wharf didn't.
From the article:
HELIPORT PLAN FOR THE EAST
Jul 20 2006
Docklands airport suggests a site to cope with rise in chopper traffic
By Lucy Walters
PLANS for an east London heliport to cater for the capital's ever-increasing helicopter traffic have been mooted by London City Airport.
The capital has only one official heliport at Battersea and with the 2012 Olympics looming large the Royal Docks airport (designated LCY) believes it is time to develop a co-ordinated approach to helicopter activity.
LCY put its suggestion to the London Assembly Environment Committee (LAEC), which is conducting an investigation into helicopter noise in London.
Airport managing director Richard Gooding outlined plans to site a helipad on the banks of the Thames.
A specific site has yet to be identified but he ruled out the airport, where helicopters would conflict with existing operations.
Mayor Ken Livingstone's London Plan says he will consider the need "of identifying sites in east London for an additional heliport to support London's economy".
LCY business development director Charles Buchanan said: "We expect to see helicopter routes extended, to follow the Thames, that will then pass through our airspace.
"By introducing a London City Airport Heliport, we would be able to enforce a coordinated approach, maximising the use of airspace and minimising the impact on the environment."
On Thursday (July 13) LAEC heard the capital's skies are congested and helicopters are being forced to fly at a lower level.
However, the Civil Aviation Authority and British Helicopter Advisory Board said the extent of the problem is not known due to a lack of helicopter monitoring.
Mr Gooding said: "The Olympics will cause a lot of demand for this type of flight, so let's use this opportunity to plan and do this properly.
"The industry needs to address this issue - doing nothing is not an option. We should be pulling together to make sure the subject is properly addressed by the Greater London Authority and the Government
"We are very experienced in dealing with the environmental impact of aircraft noise. We are prepared to put together some ideas and run with this."
LCY launched Private Jet, a corporate jet service, earlier this year and took over handling facilities for corporate flights at RAF Northolt.
LAEC chairman Darren Johnson AM said: "There is strong evidence that Londoners are increasingly concerned about helicopter noise.
The siting of a new heliport could also be a major source of controversy."
The committee's report will be published in the autumn.
Originally Posted by Benet
LAEC chairman Darren Johnson AM said: "There is strong evidence that Londoners are increasingly concerned about helicopter noise.
The siting of a new heliport could also be a major source of controversy."
The committee's report will be published in the autumn.
The siting of a new heliport could also be a major source of controversy."
The committee's report will be published in the autumn.
Mickjoebill