Ways for students to kill you ?
Thread Starter
Ways for students to kill you ?
Due to the course I'm on, this sort of info is top on my list of "things to know", as well as all sort of flying and groundschool related guff.
Things I've heard of and/or done myself:
Things I've heard of and/or done myself:
- Student pushing LEFT pedal in an CCW rotor system helicopter when entering autorotation.
- Students bunting - ex f/w perhaps ?
- Rolling throttle OFF when practising stuck collective and RRPM is already low.
- Student not lowering lever when recovering from extended range auto (75kts, 90% RRPM).
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During incipient vortex ring demo and recovery, student first action was to lower the lever, say "oops" then raise the lever sharply again! (Not recommended !!) The effect was to immediately place us in full vortex ring state....... eventual recovery completed only a few hundred feet above the ground.
Also beware of some students throwing their hands in the air during a practise, or real emergency and saying that it is in the hands of their particular maker........
Assume you are starting out in the world of instructing. Good luck and keep your eyes open!
Also beware of some students throwing their hands in the air during a practise, or real emergency and saying that it is in the hands of their particular maker........
Assume you are starting out in the world of instructing. Good luck and keep your eyes open!
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one way they and get you that I have seen at least 3 times, typically on a trial lesson, is that they are in the cruise on cyclic only and the a/c starts to pitch down and roll right and their response is to violently pull the lever up (which they dont even have control of), this despite briefing about what following through on controls means and about handing over of controls etc etc.
got my attention
regards CF
got my attention
regards CF
Hovering AND talking
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How shall I kill thee?
Let me count the ways
I once asked my instructor what he was doing at the weekend and he replied that his Friday night ritual was to climb into a bottle of Bombay Sapphire because, every working day of his life, someone would try to kill him. "I haven't tried to kill you", I replied. "Not today you haven't!"
The birdstrike wasn't my fault, neither was the ground resonance nor the cyclic coming off in my hand. However, the dodgy lift resulting in a near dynamic rollover probably was.
Cheers
Whirls
Let me count the ways
I once asked my instructor what he was doing at the weekend and he replied that his Friday night ritual was to climb into a bottle of Bombay Sapphire because, every working day of his life, someone would try to kill him. "I haven't tried to kill you", I replied. "Not today you haven't!"
The birdstrike wasn't my fault, neither was the ground resonance nor the cyclic coming off in my hand. However, the dodgy lift resulting in a near dynamic rollover probably was.
Cheers
Whirls
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Everytime they get near the machine....nah not that bad 
I found that its the better students are the ones that will catch you out, as you tend to "relax" a little more with them then students that arent so hot.
Had the wrong pedal pushed on recovery on an auto
Learnt to lock my foot in front of left pedal so if they pushed right pedal in (S300cbi) the left would not move past current position so the yaw of a lifetime could be avoided.
Have had some interesting moments, and not just from students. Had some funny event's with pilots getting a flight check or currency ride.
Hughesy
I found that its the better students are the ones that will catch you out, as you tend to "relax" a little more with them then students that arent so hot.
Had the wrong pedal pushed on recovery on an auto
Learnt to lock my foot in front of left pedal so if they pushed right pedal in (S300cbi) the left would not move past current position so the yaw of a lifetime could be avoided.
Have had some interesting moments, and not just from students. Had some funny event's with pilots getting a flight check or currency ride.
Hughesy
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Whirls has just reminded me with her last comment re "near dynamic rollover".
During sloping ground landing practise have had a student lift the downslope skid only to nearly dump the collective in a fit of pique. Had I not had my hand ready we would most likely have performed a downslope roll........
During sloping ground landing practise have had a student lift the downslope skid only to nearly dump the collective in a fit of pique. Had I not had my hand ready we would most likely have performed a downslope roll........
On recovery from auto watch the ones that raise the lever and do nothing else.
Nose comes up, airspeed decays, still coming down, power now applied all the ingredients for vortex ring.
Nose comes up, airspeed decays, still coming down, power now applied all the ingredients for vortex ring.
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Not all ways to kill you but a couple of these could prove expensive 
Whilst teaching relationship between correlator,throttle and power - ie constant RRPM at different power settings- student opening or closing throttle too much.
Similar problems in Gov off exercises during take offs, landings and circuits.
Getting confused and believeing RRPM during auto will be increased by raising the lever
Particularly on extended range autos
Allowing the nose to drop whilst auto is entered - the subsequent attempted levelling being over corrected to create a massive flare.
Harsh collective (snatching and dumping) for Take offs and landings, particularly during sloped ground training.
Hyd's off training when you first teach that.
Allowing the nose to drop mid turn during downwind quickstops.
Student on supervised solo flight starting aircraft with throttle open (I hasten to add not one that has happened to me - touches wood rapidly- but was a problem for YOUR favourite coastal training provider a few days ago when a/c was started with throttle fully open!)
Hope the course is going well
Whilst teaching relationship between correlator,throttle and power - ie constant RRPM at different power settings- student opening or closing throttle too much.
Similar problems in Gov off exercises during take offs, landings and circuits.
Getting confused and believeing RRPM during auto will be increased by raising the lever
Particularly on extended range autosAllowing the nose to drop whilst auto is entered - the subsequent attempted levelling being over corrected to create a massive flare.
Harsh collective (snatching and dumping) for Take offs and landings, particularly during sloped ground training.
Hyd's off training when you first teach that.
Allowing the nose to drop mid turn during downwind quickstops.
Student on supervised solo flight starting aircraft with throttle open
(I hasten to add not one that has happened to me - touches wood rapidly- but was a problem for YOUR favourite coastal training provider a few days ago when a/c was started with throttle fully open!)Hope the course is going well
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I'm pretty happy as long as there's only one way they can move a control to cause real grief - for instance you can easily block left pedal and forward cyclic in an auto without interfering with a student's practice.
The tough ones are things like hover autos (will they raise, dump or leave the collective alone? Will they push that cyclic in any of the four directions it can move? Stay tuned...) and slopes (same thing). Otherwise, mind your RRPM, altitude and airspeed, things aren't too bad.
Remember that no matter how experienced the pilot, throw them into a new situation and they may make the same whacko mistakes - just the other day in my EC120 transition I rolled the throttle on instead of off on shutdown (something I haven't done since I was a 20-hour pre-solo student). I'm not sure who was more surprised, me or my IP. I beat him to the fix, and no harm done, but just remember, they (we) are ALL trying to kill you (or at least your helicopter)!
The tough ones are things like hover autos (will they raise, dump or leave the collective alone? Will they push that cyclic in any of the four directions it can move? Stay tuned...) and slopes (same thing). Otherwise, mind your RRPM, altitude and airspeed, things aren't too bad.
Remember that no matter how experienced the pilot, throw them into a new situation and they may make the same whacko mistakes - just the other day in my EC120 transition I rolled the throttle on instead of off on shutdown (something I haven't done since I was a 20-hour pre-solo student). I'm not sure who was more surprised, me or my IP. I beat him to the fix, and no harm done, but just remember, they (we) are ALL trying to kill you (or at least your helicopter)!
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One of my worst ones was not long after getting instructors rating going through Climbing and descending with a student. I had done all his training and he was quiet gifted. Anyway he had been flying C & D very well for about 15 min and I relaxed a little, Just in time for him to have a Hamster Failure and pull full pitch whilst rolling off throttle!!
It is quiet amazing how fast you can move when you think you are going to die lucky for me it was a 300 and not a 22.
I cant keep track of how many times students have tried to kill me in Autos but that is a time your guard tends to be a little higher so they are not so sucessfull.
Crispy
It is quiet amazing how fast you can move when you think you are going to die lucky for me it was a 300 and not a 22.
I cant keep track of how many times students have tried to kill me in Autos but that is a time your guard tends to be a little higher so they are not so sucessfull.
Crispy
Doesn't just have to be ab-initios, or even in the air. Teaching 50 year old 15,000 hours, in skidded aircraft, pilots to ground taxy a wheeled aircraft can yield one or two interesting moments too!
The comment about watching the experienced pilots is very valid; without doubt my most 'interesting' experiences doing Bell 212 base checks were with the most experienced pilots.
Now, if you want real fun and games, try line training a 150 hour CPL......
The comment about watching the experienced pilots is very valid; without doubt my most 'interesting' experiences doing Bell 212 base checks were with the most experienced pilots.
Now, if you want real fun and games, try line training a 150 hour CPL......
Cool as a moosp
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And the old favourite in an R22. Pulling the mixture out instead of the carby heat, carefully taking the plastic sleeve off before doing so. I met an insructor in the crew room about an hour after a student had done this to him at 1,000 ft and despite his heroic recovery he was in a very low state of morale... 
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Originally Posted by Whirlygig
However, the dodgy lift resulting in a near dynamic rollover probably was.
Hovering AND talking
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Originally Posted by Pandalet
Yay, it's not just me! I was just about ready to go solo when I did this to my (poor, long-suffering) instructor - cue a few more hours of landing and take-off practice!
Cheers
Whirls
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Guilty as charged
Nr, so you feel confident of finding student that will fit in a 22 with you ! 
Having been guilty of sticking the wrong boot in on first "unexpected" simulated engine failure during PPL training, you have my full support when you unleash a triade of abusive comments at your student when it first happens to you.
I think the advice is: expect it all the time and each time it doesn't happen only increases the probability on the next flight !
Best of luck with the course. I'm sure other Pruners would be grateful of the "tips" you learn from your course (given the experience of your tutor) and would welcome further posts.
Keep the blue above you and the green below.
FO
Having been guilty of sticking the wrong boot in on first "unexpected" simulated engine failure during PPL training, you have my full support when you unleash a triade of abusive comments at your student when it first happens to you.
I think the advice is: expect it all the time and each time it doesn't happen only increases the probability on the next flight !
Best of luck with the course. I'm sure other Pruners would be grateful of the "tips" you learn from your course (given the experience of your tutor) and would welcome further posts.
Keep the blue above you and the green below.
FO
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You can be fast but...
Heard about a student who was learning to hover and some how, without the instructor knowing, trimed the cyclic all the way forward, couple that with a sweaty palm/ light grip and needless to say, that helo doesn't go 'turn-turn' anymore.
Ex fixed wing pilots (where they have been used to throttle on the left) in the hover - when a sink developes, their brains think 'more power'. Moving the left hand forward (quickly) translates into lowering the lever (quickly!). Nearly caught me out a few times.