JAA IR Training - why only on a twin?
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 921
Likes: 30
From: Europe
BaronG,
The reason you cannot quote chapter and verse is that you are simply wrong. Any Part 27 helicopter can be certificated for operation under instrument flight rules (certificated for flight in IMC) by complying with Appendix B to FAR/CS 27. There is no requirement to have two engines; in fact a number of civil singles are already certificated for flight in IMC.
The main reason not many are seen is because there is little or no demand - the cost of the additional requirements for stability, equipment, systems and installation for an aircraft which would rarely use them, is prohibitive.
JAR-OPS 3 prohibits SEIMC for Commercial Air Transport (CAT) as did ICAO Annex 6 (by inference) before the recent amendment (not yet published). SEIMC is now covered by the revised Annex 6 but is unlikely (in my view) to result in a change of regulations world-wide. The amendment calls for additional equipment/procedures mainly required to mitigate the risk of flying in cloud (mostly equipment failure and subsequent loss of control) for the purpose of CAT.
Jim
The reason you cannot quote chapter and verse is that you are simply wrong. Any Part 27 helicopter can be certificated for operation under instrument flight rules (certificated for flight in IMC) by complying with Appendix B to FAR/CS 27. There is no requirement to have two engines; in fact a number of civil singles are already certificated for flight in IMC.
The main reason not many are seen is because there is little or no demand - the cost of the additional requirements for stability, equipment, systems and installation for an aircraft which would rarely use them, is prohibitive.
JAR-OPS 3 prohibits SEIMC for Commercial Air Transport (CAT) as did ICAO Annex 6 (by inference) before the recent amendment (not yet published). SEIMC is now covered by the revised Annex 6 but is unlikely (in my view) to result in a change of regulations world-wide. The amendment calls for additional equipment/procedures mainly required to mitigate the risk of flying in cloud (mostly equipment failure and subsequent loss of control) for the purpose of CAT.
Jim
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Posts: n/a
Only hurdle then is to manage to secure a place on an IR course. Everywhere is pretty well booked up for now.
I heard recently CHC were booking a lot of IR places at various schools but I assume this must have changed again.
AS for SPIFR, I agree, only way to get that sort of job is to get the experience first. IMHO it'd be safer.
I heard recently CHC were booking a lot of IR places at various schools but I assume this must have changed again.
AS for SPIFR, I agree, only way to get that sort of job is to get the experience first. IMHO it'd be safer.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: UK
Originally Posted by JimL
BaronG,
The reason you cannot quote chapter and verse is that you are simply wrong.
The reason you cannot quote chapter and verse is that you are simply wrong.
Originally Posted by JimL
Any Part 27 helicopter can be certificated for operation under instrument flight rules (certificated for flight in IMC) by complying with Appendix B to FAR/CS 27. There is no requirement to have two engines; in fact a number of civil singles are already certificated for flight in IMC.
Originally Posted by JimL
JAR-OPS 3 prohibits SEIMC for Commercial Air Transport (CAT) as did ICAO Annex 6 (by inference) before the recent amendment (not yet published). SEIMC is now covered by the revised Annex 6 but is unlikely (in my view) to result in a change of regulations world-wide. The amendment calls for additional equipment/procedures mainly required to mitigate the risk of flying in cloud (mostly equipment failure and subsequent loss of control) for the purpose of CAT.
So under JAA, IFR = twin engine. So the question is, at some point in the dim/distant pass was SE IFR(H) legal in the UK?
BG
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 921
Likes: 30
From: Europe
BaronG,
Be careful as you are mixing and matching too much.
The referenced text is not exclusive to the FAA; also quoted were European Regulations - i.e. CS 27. There is no longer such a thing as UK specifically; the UK is now subject to EASA regulations for certification.
I was also careful to stress that the operational regulations mentioned were for Commercial Air Transport (CAT). I'm not aware of rules in Europe prohibiting SEIMC for general aviation (private) or aerial work - certainly not in the JAA who do not have rules for these areas (JAR-OPS 0, 2 and 4 were circulated for comment but appear to have been left to EASA to implement).
For helicopter operations in CAT in the JAA (which excludes basic training), IFR has to be undertaken with a twin - not only does the helicopter have to be certificated for flight in IMC but it also has to be certificated in Cat A (neither of which preclude Part 27 helicopters as there is provisions in Appendices B and C for these).
Jim
Be careful as you are mixing and matching too much.
The referenced text is not exclusive to the FAA; also quoted were European Regulations - i.e. CS 27. There is no longer such a thing as UK specifically; the UK is now subject to EASA regulations for certification.
I was also careful to stress that the operational regulations mentioned were for Commercial Air Transport (CAT). I'm not aware of rules in Europe prohibiting SEIMC for general aviation (private) or aerial work - certainly not in the JAA who do not have rules for these areas (JAR-OPS 0, 2 and 4 were circulated for comment but appear to have been left to EASA to implement).
For helicopter operations in CAT in the JAA (which excludes basic training), IFR has to be undertaken with a twin - not only does the helicopter have to be certificated for flight in IMC but it also has to be certificated in Cat A (neither of which preclude Part 27 helicopters as there is provisions in Appendices B and C for these).
Jim
