Who's going to do basic SAR rear crew trg?
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'Steady - on boys', I started this thread to talk about SAR training and initial training for ab-initios - certainly didn't want a peeing contest. Now I don't know who you are and it's probably best that way, but if you are SAR boys then I bet you are dedicated and professional blokes/girls who do a difficult and demanding job. Should be pulling in the same direction me thinks. Lets dream about bigger wages, better contracts, more support, greater commonality and beer. 
AT
AT
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Originally Posted by crud12001
AT,
couldnt agree more!.
So can anyone shed some light on how things are going at Jigsaw.
When will it be up and running? just interested.
couldnt agree more!.
So can anyone shed some light on how things are going at Jigsaw.
When will it be up and running? just interested.
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can anyone help?????
Hiya lads.
I am interested in a career in sar ops but i cant find anyone or anywhere i could get some degree of training apart from joining the mil. I know there are a lot of winchmen and winch ops on this site so i would be very greatfull if any of you could give me some bit of information reguards what route to take.
Thanks lads.
I am interested in a career in sar ops but i cant find anyone or anywhere i could get some degree of training apart from joining the mil. I know there are a lot of winchmen and winch ops on this site so i would be very greatfull if any of you could give me some bit of information reguards what route to take.
Thanks lads.
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I am interested in a career in sar ops but i cant find anyone or anywhere i could get some degree of training apart from joining the mil. I know there are a lot of winchmen and winch ops on this site so i would be very greatfull if any of you could give me some bit of information reguards what route to take.
Firstly you should know that by far the highest majority of winch ops and winchmen operating in SAR are current or ex-military. Indeed, I think it would be fair to say that it has until recently been much easier/cheaper for civvy SAR companies to take ex-military guys and convert them to their aircraft and operating procedures, than it was to train a guy from scratch.
Following recent contract awards and the future of SAR(H), it now apparent that companies like CHC, Bond, Bristows, etc are having to look to ab-initios more and more. No longer are there droves of military guys leaving the service, and one could argue that the arrival of newer helicopter types (S92, AW139, AS332L2, etc) suggest that ex-military SAR experience is not necessarily relevant.
From a training perspective, all SAR operators will find it difficult to train new people on expensive platforms like S92 and AW139. It just isn't cost-effective to do this and the annual training budget is normally allocated to currency training for the front line crews. Having said that, I believe that current contractual arrangements with the MCA in the UK dictate that the SAR operator should have a training academy - therefore, I would be surprised if CHC don't have a plan for such an outfit. In this case they will offer ab-initio training or contract it out.
The other alternatives are to find one of the few Helicopetr Hoist Operator (HHO) training providers and ask them to put you on a course. But (and a big but) there is no guarantee of future employment and the costs tend to be quite high.
If you PM me I can give you a few more details without upsetting the moderator on this forum.
Edited later.
Ok rant started.
I started this thread with a genuine question about training new guys for SAR. We've been round the houses a few times, but it seems that Whopperchopper's comment is about right in that SAR companies will satisfy their man power requirements by stealing experienced blokes from other operators. I have heard all sorts of rumours about new SAR academies, and I have no doubt that when SAR(H) and UKMFTS get up and running their will be a huge SAR academy at Valley or somewhere else. But what is happening now?
There are many guys like Murry (earlier post) who ask about where to go for SAR training. When I am approached personally by guys with aspirations for a job in SAR I always refer them to the training managers or HR departments at the usual places (Jigsaw, CHC, Bristows). To date I have not had a single reply from these operators nor any indication as to how these ab-initios can enter SAR. New SAR rearcrew can be given very basic training on EC135/EC145/BK117/212/Squirrel, etc before being groomed for a front line job on S61, S92, AW139, etc. I have proved this and continue to be convinced that this is the way ahead. Low 'up front' cost, low risk, sensible progression all outsourced to a sub-contractor. Someone ought to pinch this idea cos I ain't getting anywhere.
AT
Last edited by Arctic Tern; 26th Aug 2006 at 08:12.
Tern,
Can you educate a simple pilot on the basic elements of training for a SAR crewman? Keep it simple for me, ok? To what extent could this training be done in a small aircraft? How about the use of training devices (winch simulators at a pool facility, etc).
As you said, when a training academy is up and running, beauty.
HP
Can you educate a simple pilot on the basic elements of training for a SAR crewman? Keep it simple for me, ok? To what extent could this training be done in a small aircraft? How about the use of training devices (winch simulators at a pool facility, etc).
As you said, when a training academy is up and running, beauty.
HP
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Tern,
Can you educate a simple pilot on the basic elements of training for a SAR crewman? Keep it simple for me, ok? To what extent could this training be done in a small aircraft? How about the use of training devices (winch simulators at a pool facility, etc).
Can you educate a simple pilot on the basic elements of training for a SAR crewman? Keep it simple for me, ok? To what extent could this training be done in a small aircraft? How about the use of training devices (winch simulators at a pool facility, etc).
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Deep pockets
Will BP allow the Bond SAR aircrew to be poached by CHC for their new Coastguard contract?
Rumour has it that BP has already offered Bond an open cheque book if CHC start poaching their SAR pilots. After a high level pay hike Bond will place adverts to poach pilots from CHC at these sky high rates. CHC will then have to pay all its pilots these new industry rates to retain those who may wish to leave to fly Bond's new 225's. At an oil price of $70 plus I look forward to ordering my new Porsche next year, I promise to fill it with only BP petrol.
Come on CHC, go for it and start a bidding war !
Rumour has it that BP has already offered Bond an open cheque book if CHC start poaching their SAR pilots. After a high level pay hike Bond will place adverts to poach pilots from CHC at these sky high rates. CHC will then have to pay all its pilots these new industry rates to retain those who may wish to leave to fly Bond's new 225's. At an oil price of $70 plus I look forward to ordering my new Porsche next year, I promise to fill it with only BP petrol.
Come on CHC, go for it and start a bidding war !
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Big Pete,
rumours going around that Jigsaw will be ditched soon.Apparantly they have a problem with the Ships and the ARRK's? The mother Ships are just going in and out of Aberdeen with cargo.Non of them have the big boats fitted.
How can they provide a rescue service with out them?
You heard anything?
rumours going around that Jigsaw will be ditched soon.Apparantly they have a problem with the Ships and the ARRK's? The mother Ships are just going in and out of Aberdeen with cargo.Non of them have the big boats fitted.
How can they provide a rescue service with out them?
You heard anything?
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Aircrew positions
Evening gents, Im an experienced aircrewman/winchman from Australia looking for work in the UK. Who does one have to get in touch with regarding employment with some of the companies you guys are talking about that are short on crew. Thanks in advance for the help
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Helicopter Crew.
Just a suggestion, has anyone of these companies thought of poaching from the the MCA's fixed wing rear crew boys and retraining them? Some of them are extremely experienced with SAR experience and would just need some retraining to the rotary environment - and think of the experience they'd bring to it. Any thoughts?
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this may well fall on deaf ears gentlemen but having tried to get some sort of contact in the uk helicopter industry for a while now,i will give anything a shot.
very intersting reading the threads on sar rear crew members,even chc are advertising in the national press recently.imagine my surprise(not really)the positions are only for experienced crew members so now to the point,how does one become an inexperienced member let alone get to retirement age as most now seem to be.to work with an old hand and learn from experience is great if someone out there would start the process off in the first place...
very intersting reading the threads on sar rear crew members,even chc are advertising in the national press recently.imagine my surprise(not really)the positions are only for experienced crew members so now to the point,how does one become an inexperienced member let alone get to retirement age as most now seem to be.to work with an old hand and learn from experience is great if someone out there would start the process off in the first place...
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Civvy SAR
Whilst i appreciate that the military and coastguard are the dogs bo**ocks when it comes to SAR work, it certainly is possible to train civvies up to a good standard of hoist ops. Obviously, there needs to be a strict selection process making sure there are the right candidates, who can be trained with the correct training programme. Having seen the work of HRC UK, a company who trains HHO, it can be done and to a very high standard. As previously quoted, by a SAR operator, even the mil guys have to start somewhere.
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The problem that CHC have inherited from Bristow’s, is that most of the Bristow rearcrew are in the twilight of their flying careers. So where do you get the extra rearcrew/winchops/winchmen from??
There is a huge crop of current Air Ambulance paramedics that have years of registered paramedic experience
As for the winching experience, then by 2012 we'll all be trained in 'inland winching' anyway on air ambulances.
There is a huge crop of current Air Ambulance paramedics that have years of registered paramedic experience
As for the winching experience, then by 2012 we'll all be trained in 'inland winching' anyway on air ambulances.
