Precautionary landings
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Precautionary landings
Hi all.
Without wanting to sound like a total novice I have a Q for you rotary types....
I was flying last week (fixed Wing pilot),and a large helo had departed shortly before me.As I was in the climbout I heard the helo pilot call up with a problem of some sort,I think he had a door open or similar(his words were along the lines of "the groundcrew have not secured the a/c properly"
)
He proceded to ask the radar controller where he could go asap to sort it,and was advised of a dissused helo base nearby which he then confirmed as showing on his gps.A short conversation ensued as to wether he could land there to which the controller told him he was unsure of the place's status,this went on with pilot asking if he could land there legally etc,but the atc man rightly avoided advising him too much. In the end he returned to the initial base to sort it,I think he parked on the cross runway,got out and fixed it himself......
Here comes the question:
Why could he not put it down either in a field/car park or this old base etc,surely the advantage of VTOL is there to be used.Fair enough it was a bit big,but no soft ground around with the current hot weather to cause a problem?
As a fixed winger listening in,I said to my pax,why not put it down and have a look-or is it not that simple in commercial ops?
Cheers Mark.
Without wanting to sound like a total novice I have a Q for you rotary types....
I was flying last week (fixed Wing pilot),and a large helo had departed shortly before me.As I was in the climbout I heard the helo pilot call up with a problem of some sort,I think he had a door open or similar(his words were along the lines of "the groundcrew have not secured the a/c properly"
)He proceded to ask the radar controller where he could go asap to sort it,and was advised of a dissused helo base nearby which he then confirmed as showing on his gps.A short conversation ensued as to wether he could land there to which the controller told him he was unsure of the place's status,this went on with pilot asking if he could land there legally etc,but the atc man rightly avoided advising him too much. In the end he returned to the initial base to sort it,I think he parked on the cross runway,got out and fixed it himself......
Here comes the question:
Why could he not put it down either in a field/car park or this old base etc,surely the advantage of VTOL is there to be used.Fair enough it was a bit big,but no soft ground around with the current hot weather to cause a problem?
As a fixed winger listening in,I said to my pax,why not put it down and have a look-or is it not that simple in commercial ops?
Cheers Mark.
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If you read a thread called "The Scene is Set" you might get an inkling!
Some landowners are not to happy to have a helicopter land without prior permission and the MoD are the worst (in my experience)!
The pilot did the absolute safest thing in returning to base; there may be problems with disused pad that he or ATC wouldn't have known about and he probably didn't want to find out the hard way!
Cheers
Whirls
Some landowners are not to happy to have a helicopter land without prior permission and the MoD are the worst (in my experience)!
The pilot did the absolute safest thing in returning to base; there may be problems with disused pad that he or ATC wouldn't have known about and he probably didn't want to find out the hard way!
Cheers
Whirls
Seems there's a time to worry about infamous Rule 5 and an irate landowner....but not when faced with a need to perform a precautionary landing.
If you have time to discuss such things one does not have the need to perform a precautionary landing. Seems to me simply calling for a closed circuit and a landing on a non-traffic spot would have sufficed. Or am I missing something here?
If you have time to discuss such things one does not have the need to perform a precautionary landing. Seems to me simply calling for a closed circuit and a landing on a non-traffic spot would have sufficed. Or am I missing something here?
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SASless,
No one in UK would really understand the American term "closed circuit" as it's only normally used by electricians!
I have landed off-base many times in emergency situations and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. Wanting a drink obviously doesn't count as an emergency as it's not in the checklist.
No one in UK would really understand the American term "closed circuit" as it's only normally used by electricians!
I have landed off-base many times in emergency situations and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. Wanting a drink obviously doesn't count as an emergency as it's not in the checklist.
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With something like an unsecured door I would land in the nearest suitable field. Why continue flying longer than necessary with a snag which, if the door detached, could take off your tail rotor? 'Don't press on, LAND ON' is not a bad mantra for rotary pilots, IMHO.
I agree that landing with a door open is probably best done sooner rather than later. Particlularly if the door is known to be open, rather than just a caption which may or may not be correct. The door 'coming off' is the extreme end of what might happen, but much more likely is bits flying out of the cabin; maps, cushions, jackets etc which are a very real hazard.
E.g.:
DFW05LA019, BELL BH-206L-1, POSITIONING (AIR MEDICAL), 11/09/04 - At 1731 hours CST, the helicopter was substantially damaged upon impact with terrain following a loss of control while in cruise flight near Sapulpa, Oklahoma. The pilot reported that the flight made a refueling stop at the Richard Lloyd Jones Jr. Airport (RVS), where the helicopter was serviced with 31 gallons of jet fuel. The flight departed uneventfully en route to their home base at Cushing, Oklahoma. The pilot added that while in level flight at 500 feet above ground level (agl), while about 3 miles west southwest of the RVS airport, he "felt something" impact the helicopter, followed by a sudden uncommanded left yaw, and a subsequent loss of tail rotor drive. While attempting to land the helicopter in a clearing, the pilot lost control of the helicopter, which resulted in a hard landing. The helicopter rolled over and came to rest on its left side. There was no fire. Examination of the wreckage revealed that some of the fly-away items and some medical supplies, normally stored in the baggage compartment, were found scattered along the route of flight short of the main wreckage. Examination of the baggage door revealed that both door latches were unlatched and the door was partially open. Further examination of the tail rotor drive shaft revealed a torsional fracture of the tail rotor drive shaft. Frayed fibers and material consistent with clothing or a blanket were found throughout the tail rotor assembly and tail rotor hub. The commercial pilot and one paramedic sustained minor injuries and a second paramedic was not injured. The flight was conducted under 14 CFR Part 91, and a company VFR flight plan was filed. The
weather was reported as VMC, with clear skies, 10 miles visibility and winds at 5 knots.
E.g.:
DFW05LA019, BELL BH-206L-1, POSITIONING (AIR MEDICAL), 11/09/04 - At 1731 hours CST, the helicopter was substantially damaged upon impact with terrain following a loss of control while in cruise flight near Sapulpa, Oklahoma. The pilot reported that the flight made a refueling stop at the Richard Lloyd Jones Jr. Airport (RVS), where the helicopter was serviced with 31 gallons of jet fuel. The flight departed uneventfully en route to their home base at Cushing, Oklahoma. The pilot added that while in level flight at 500 feet above ground level (agl), while about 3 miles west southwest of the RVS airport, he "felt something" impact the helicopter, followed by a sudden uncommanded left yaw, and a subsequent loss of tail rotor drive. While attempting to land the helicopter in a clearing, the pilot lost control of the helicopter, which resulted in a hard landing. The helicopter rolled over and came to rest on its left side. There was no fire. Examination of the wreckage revealed that some of the fly-away items and some medical supplies, normally stored in the baggage compartment, were found scattered along the route of flight short of the main wreckage. Examination of the baggage door revealed that both door latches were unlatched and the door was partially open. Further examination of the tail rotor drive shaft revealed a torsional fracture of the tail rotor drive shaft. Frayed fibers and material consistent with clothing or a blanket were found throughout the tail rotor assembly and tail rotor hub. The commercial pilot and one paramedic sustained minor injuries and a second paramedic was not injured. The flight was conducted under 14 CFR Part 91, and a company VFR flight plan was filed. The
weather was reported as VMC, with clear skies, 10 miles visibility and winds at 5 knots.
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212 man. It does happen, though. Puma in Norway - cabin door detached, hit T/R. TRGB detached. Very fwd C0fG. All dead. Puma in Ulster - MGB cowling detached, hit T/R. Driveshaft sheered. Pilot carried out an EOL to an Irish bog. Rolled over but no-one hurt.
