aviation mythbuster
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aviation mythbuster
what's this about not using a cellphone when flying... rotors or stuck-winged. i have not yet heard a single report of airplanes loosing control due to cell phones in the cabin/cockpit.
what i have heard is that airborne cell phones can pick up too many base stations on ground and thus occupying bandwidth (or slots).
any comments or experiences?
what i have heard is that airborne cell phones can pick up too many base stations on ground and thus occupying bandwidth (or slots).
any comments or experiences?
Jetrangers and Huey's being such advanced designs with all the modern FBW, FMS, GPS, HUD's and things seem to tolerate the use of cellphones just fine. Pop a cellset adapter into the headset lead and yer off to the races.
In the USA, that is a mortal sin to the FCC however. One must not break the rules, eh!
In the USA, that is a mortal sin to the FCC however. One must not break the rules, eh!
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There were extensive replies on a thread about this just a few weeks ago. There have been instances in the S76 for example of cell phones bringing on false engine fire warnings. Have a look at the recent thread by using 'search' and you'll see all that was said by opponents and proponents.
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There was an interesting article in last month's IEEE (US Institue of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) Spectrum magazine that summarized this whole issue. There have been numerous documented cases of auto pilots etc steering planes in completely the wrong direction. In several of these cases, the captain has managed to locate a specific mobile phone that was the cause of the error. Laptops with 802.11 and Bluetooth have also been seen to cause problems.
As part of the research they put some monitoring equipment on domestic US flights and the number of instances of people deliberately using phones was very high and IIRC the summary of the article was that it was only a matter of time . . . .
As part of the research they put some monitoring equipment on domestic US flights and the number of instances of people deliberately using phones was very high and IIRC the summary of the article was that it was only a matter of time . . . .
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Try putting a mobile phone next to a radio and/or a computer monitor. Every time the phone does a little search for a cell, your radio will crackle (assuming it's on of course) and your monitor will flicker. It gets worse if there's an incoming call or text.
So interference is real enough. They way it can affect different systems though can be an unknown quantity; it some cases it may, in others it may not. But it's not entirely a myth.
Cheers
Whirls
So interference is real enough. They way it can affect different systems though can be an unknown quantity; it some cases it may, in others it may not. But it's not entirely a myth.
Cheers
Whirls
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Mobile Phones in the cockpit.
Have been told by an experienced EC135 HEMS pilot that one day while doing his A check his fone rang while he was bent over an engine, suddenly the igniters went off, even with the aircraft battery switched OFF. Luckily there was no fuel in the engine or he could have got an unexpected sun-tan. It's now company policy to ensure all fones must be switched off in the helicopter at all times.
Regards,
BC.
Regards,
BC.
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Discovery Channel's Mythbusters
Does the Discovery Channel travel beyond the States?
On Episode 49: Cell Phones on Planes of the Mythbusters
they examined this problem.
(http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/my...9/episode.html)
If I remember correctly, they had a very difficult time
getting any measurable impact on the avionics of both
a mock-up GA and a fairly modern small jet. Since it's
impossible to exhaustively test all possible combinations
of aircraft and cell phones, it appears to be a case of the
FAA being very conservative.
If you are having problems with engine control in an
EC135, why don't you have problems in your BMW?
(Automotive technology more robust than aviation
technology?
)
--Shaun
On Episode 49: Cell Phones on Planes of the Mythbusters
they examined this problem.
(http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/my...9/episode.html)
If I remember correctly, they had a very difficult time
getting any measurable impact on the avionics of both
a mock-up GA and a fairly modern small jet. Since it's
impossible to exhaustively test all possible combinations
of aircraft and cell phones, it appears to be a case of the
FAA being very conservative.
If you are having problems with engine control in an
EC135, why don't you have problems in your BMW?
(Automotive technology more robust than aviation
technology?
)--Shaun
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If in doubt, there is no doubt surely?
The case for saying 'it's not happened yet' is frankly ludicrous. I thought the aviation business worked along the lines of prevention as opposed to cure. The cure is usually the result of something going very wrong.
Do you really need to use your phone that badly? I thought thats what answer phones and text messaging was for?
Because of the vast array of different avionic systems out there, you can be sure that one of them will get affected by a rogue signal. It just aint worth the risk. Certainly not taking the 'well its never caused a crash before' stance. I'd rather not be the one to make the precedence that proves the point.
The case for saying 'it's not happened yet' is frankly ludicrous. I thought the aviation business worked along the lines of prevention as opposed to cure. The cure is usually the result of something going very wrong.
Do you really need to use your phone that badly? I thought thats what answer phones and text messaging was for?
Because of the vast array of different avionic systems out there, you can be sure that one of them will get affected by a rogue signal. It just aint worth the risk. Certainly not taking the 'well its never caused a crash before' stance. I'd rather not be the one to make the precedence that proves the point.
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Mobile phones vary the amount of power used to transmit, based on the signal strength in the area in which they are operating. Generally this means the further you are away from the nearest mobile phone mast, the higher the power output of the cellphone in order to keep the contact going.
In the case of a cellphone in an aircraft, the higher you climb the higher the power output of the cellphone until when you have no useful signal from land based aerials the cellphone is blasting away at maximum output and does so frequently as it tries to locate a new connection. It is at this time that the cellphone is the most dangerous when in an aircraft with loads of electronically controlled critical equipment such as FADEC etc.
Recent ideas are to place a mobile phone "mast" inside the aircraft which is connected to a rebroadcaster outside the aircraft. The interior "mast" only needs to transmit a fairly weak signal to facilitate connection with the passengers cellphones which should also only need to transmit a fairly weak signal to maintain communication. Not sure if this has already been put into practise, but it is certainly being thought of. It also means that those annoying ringtones will invade your sleep on long haul flights together with the familiar conversations like "hello mate. I'm on a plane over Paris"
T4
In the case of a cellphone in an aircraft, the higher you climb the higher the power output of the cellphone until when you have no useful signal from land based aerials the cellphone is blasting away at maximum output and does so frequently as it tries to locate a new connection. It is at this time that the cellphone is the most dangerous when in an aircraft with loads of electronically controlled critical equipment such as FADEC etc.
Recent ideas are to place a mobile phone "mast" inside the aircraft which is connected to a rebroadcaster outside the aircraft. The interior "mast" only needs to transmit a fairly weak signal to facilitate connection with the passengers cellphones which should also only need to transmit a fairly weak signal to maintain communication. Not sure if this has already been put into practise, but it is certainly being thought of. It also means that those annoying ringtones will invade your sleep on long haul flights together with the familiar conversations like "hello mate. I'm on a plane over Paris"
T4
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Trolley dolly's (we can still call them that, right?) should include in the pax brief, 'if you have your mobile phone switched on during the flight, there is a chance you will kill us all, turn the fcukers off, relax and enjoy the peace. The emergency exits are here.......'.
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Originally Posted by Greaney
If I remember correctly, they had a very difficult time
getting any measurable impact on the avionics of both
a mock-up GA and a fairly modern small jet.
getting any measurable impact on the avionics of both
a mock-up GA and a fairly modern small jet.
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Memory is the first to go.
bfisk,
Was that with the older VOR they used in the mock-up? Wish I had
recorded that episode. Didn't they have to go to a sig gen with higher
power to get the response?
--Shaun
Was that with the older VOR they used in the mock-up? Wish I had
recorded that episode. Didn't they have to go to a sig gen with higher
power to get the response?
--Shaun
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i guess i have flown vfr too long to worry about the output burst of a cell phone. i've jumpseated in turboprop aircrafts where the crew sent text messages (and mms messages with pictures of their sleeping captain) to friends on the ground.
but as some of you have mentioned the transmitting power of a laptop's 802.11 is by far not enough to disturb the electronics in an aircraft flying. i can relate to a cell phone might interfer with relays when being very close or next to it. i don't think it would affect high tech electronics. arguing that you can hear static noise or see disturbance on a monitor when the cell phone is sending is not enough to conclude that it will affect systems in the helicopter. cell phones can't be transmitting with many watts, because if so we would get a lead pouch to protect our jewels from radiomagnetic waves when buying one.
maybe we should conduct a poll to see how many of you rotorheads turn off your cell phone when flying.
/ahp
but as some of you have mentioned the transmitting power of a laptop's 802.11 is by far not enough to disturb the electronics in an aircraft flying. i can relate to a cell phone might interfer with relays when being very close or next to it. i don't think it would affect high tech electronics. arguing that you can hear static noise or see disturbance on a monitor when the cell phone is sending is not enough to conclude that it will affect systems in the helicopter. cell phones can't be transmitting with many watts, because if so we would get a lead pouch to protect our jewels from radiomagnetic waves when buying one.
maybe we should conduct a poll to see how many of you rotorheads turn off your cell phone when flying.
/ahp
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"while doing his A check his fone rang while he was bent over an engine, suddenly the igniters went off, even with the aircraft battery switched OFF."
That one really sounds like a Myth.........
That one really sounds like a Myth.........
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The nices story I heard, I know the people involved so it's not apocrophyl (?) is one of my previous airlines A321 coming in to Heathrow with a CAA Flight Ops Inspector on the jumpseat. As the aircraft comes below 6000', Captains mobile aquires a cell and LOUDLY receives a text message.
I am sure many have heard airport transmissions being made where the log-on chirp of a mobile phone can be clearly heard over the broadcast.
There were several alleged incidents of navigation/autopilot degredation, but so far I have not heard of any accident or fatality directly to the presence on an active mobile phone. I stand ready to be corrected.
TOD
I am sure many have heard airport transmissions being made where the log-on chirp of a mobile phone can be clearly heard over the broadcast.
There were several alleged incidents of navigation/autopilot degredation, but so far I have not heard of any accident or fatality directly to the presence on an active mobile phone. I stand ready to be corrected.
TOD
Gatvol
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"What about the thousands of people useing cell phones in modern cars that have way more electronic equipment than a lot of aircraft? "
Just watch them, they are all over the road......Its sort of like sober people making it hard for Drunk Drivers, they screw up the weave pattern.l
Just watch them, they are all over the road......Its sort of like sober people making it hard for Drunk Drivers, they screw up the weave pattern.l
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On the 29th April 2004, a Super Puma L2 (helicopter) was returning from offshore. As it was on the approach to it’s destination airport, a passenger used his mobile ‘phone. This resulted in the loss of all flight and navigation information on both pilot’s Integrated Flight Display System screens lasting one second during this critical phase of flight.
The UK Civil Aviation Authority carried out tests on two parked aircraft to find out the potential dangers of mobile ‘phone use. It found evidence that they produced interference levels which could disrupt aircraft systems. Faults attributed to mobile ‘phones include false cockpit warnings, malfunctioning of aircraft systems, interference in pilot’s headsets – all distracting the crew from their primary task.
The UK Civil Aviation Authority carried out tests on two parked aircraft to find out the potential dangers of mobile ‘phone use. It found evidence that they produced interference levels which could disrupt aircraft systems. Faults attributed to mobile ‘phones include false cockpit warnings, malfunctioning of aircraft systems, interference in pilot’s headsets – all distracting the crew from their primary task.
Hovering AND talking
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maybe we should conduct a poll to see how many of you rotorheads turn off your cell phone when flying.
Cheers
Whirls
Hovering AND talking
Errrrrr....Whirls....are you really switched off while flying?
