GOM Gossip
Zalt no offense meant and may be lightly overstepping my boundaries however I believe that this type of inquiry belongs to a different website.
If there are consequences to the accident of Dec.11 deriving from operational considerations then the company management already knows which ones they are to be; even though this is a Rumors Network, speculation without need is not what we deal with best.
May I refer you to JH for further inquiries of this type?
By the way someone has been trying to set up a fund for donations for the children of the pilot on that flight, that information would be far more welcome here.
Happy Holidays.
If there are consequences to the accident of Dec.11 deriving from operational considerations then the company management already knows which ones they are to be; even though this is a Rumors Network, speculation without need is not what we deal with best.
May I refer you to JH for further inquiries of this type?
By the way someone has been trying to set up a fund for donations for the children of the pilot on that flight, that information would be far more welcome here.
Happy Holidays.
Zalt,
As there are probably more than a few Chief Pilots "departing" from someplace in the world....as this web site does draw folks from all over the world...perhaps you could give us a wee hint which continent you had in mind when you make a post such as that?
As to it being related to 180AL....could you enlighten us as to why you think RLC would boot the CP before the accident had been investigated and a cause determined?
Tott,
If you find out how to contact that fund for the children....let me know....I have no kids of my own....and it is Christmas soon.
As there are probably more than a few Chief Pilots "departing" from someplace in the world....as this web site does draw folks from all over the world...perhaps you could give us a wee hint which continent you had in mind when you make a post such as that?
As to it being related to 180AL....could you enlighten us as to why you think RLC would boot the CP before the accident had been investigated and a cause determined?
Tott,
If you find out how to contact that fund for the children....let me know....I have no kids of my own....and it is Christmas soon.
This is an excerpt of the obituary with donations info, I am trying to find out if there anything more specific and I am in it.
I did not know the pilot personally nor through acquaintances however I can only start to imagine the pain of his family at a time like this.
......Joe was also a U.S. Navy Veteran who spent time living in Japan, Colorado, Alaska, California, Ohio and New Jersey, before settling near family in Quincy, MA where Joe and his wife, Susan Durkin, wanted to raise their family. Joe was a loving and adoring father to his two daughters, Anna Marie Laugelle, age 10 and Margaret Grace Laugelle, age 8. Joe was the brother of Betsy Laugelle and the late Anne Marie Laugelle. He is also survived by his birth mother, Joyce Hamner of Watertown and his sister Stacie Hamner of Newburyport. Joe was the son-in-law of Edward J. Durkin and the late Stephanie Durkin. He will also be deeply missed by his Durkin brothers and sisters and their families: Stephen Durkin and his daughters Mollie and Bridget; Deborah and Daniel Finn and their daughters Emily and Michaela; Deirdre and Stephen Haskell and their daughters Victoria and Caroline; Kevin and Patti Durkin and their children Catherine, Lauren, and Daniel; Sheila and Tom Deegan and their children Thomas, Patrick, Connor and Meredith; Mark and Annmary Durkin and their son, Ryan. Joe is also survived by many other loving relatives and friends. Relatives and friends are respectfully invited to join us at a ceremony and reception to celebrate Joe's life on Wednesday, December 17, at 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon, at the Grand Ballroom at Quarry Hills, 100 Quarry Hills Drive, Quincy, MA. For those wishing, donations may be made to the Joseph S. Laugelle, Jr. Family Memorial Fund, c/o Sovereign Bank, 20 Beale St., Quincy, MA 02170.
I did not know the pilot personally nor through acquaintances however I can only start to imagine the pain of his family at a time like this.
......Joe was also a U.S. Navy Veteran who spent time living in Japan, Colorado, Alaska, California, Ohio and New Jersey, before settling near family in Quincy, MA where Joe and his wife, Susan Durkin, wanted to raise their family. Joe was a loving and adoring father to his two daughters, Anna Marie Laugelle, age 10 and Margaret Grace Laugelle, age 8. Joe was the brother of Betsy Laugelle and the late Anne Marie Laugelle. He is also survived by his birth mother, Joyce Hamner of Watertown and his sister Stacie Hamner of Newburyport. Joe was the son-in-law of Edward J. Durkin and the late Stephanie Durkin. He will also be deeply missed by his Durkin brothers and sisters and their families: Stephen Durkin and his daughters Mollie and Bridget; Deborah and Daniel Finn and their daughters Emily and Michaela; Deirdre and Stephen Haskell and their daughters Victoria and Caroline; Kevin and Patti Durkin and their children Catherine, Lauren, and Daniel; Sheila and Tom Deegan and their children Thomas, Patrick, Connor and Meredith; Mark and Annmary Durkin and their son, Ryan. Joe is also survived by many other loving relatives and friends. Relatives and friends are respectfully invited to join us at a ceremony and reception to celebrate Joe's life on Wednesday, December 17, at 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon, at the Grand Ballroom at Quarry Hills, 100 Quarry Hills Drive, Quincy, MA. For those wishing, donations may be made to the Joseph S. Laugelle, Jr. Family Memorial Fund, c/o Sovereign Bank, 20 Beale St., Quincy, MA 02170.
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Tott
No offence taken, though I am not sure how asking a question is any more speculative or inappropriate than a comment you have already made after that accident (caveat or otherwise):
On the matter of JH it should be no shock that I value the level of intellect here!
Thanks for posting the donation information - I for one had not seen that.
SASless
As the thread is titled GOM Gossip I had hoped that would narrow it down. Is ther another GOM?
Deriously, you ask
. Well no I can't, and so we have a common interest in that answer.
I had wondered if it was to do with the delay in calling for a rescue in the early press reports. But according to tottigol:
No offence taken, though I am not sure how asking a question is any more speculative or inappropriate than a comment you have already made after that accident (caveat or otherwise):
This company does have a reputation for all kinds of shortcuts (albeit not determined whether that was a factor in this accident) and a safety record to match.
Thanks for posting the donation information - I for one had not seen that.
SASless
As the thread is titled GOM Gossip I had hoped that would narrow it down. Is ther another GOM?
Deriously, you ask
could you enlighten us as to why you think RLC would boot the CP before the accident had been investigated and a cause determined?
I had wondered if it was to do with the delay in calling for a rescue in the early press reports. But according to tottigol:
I also believe this company "leases" flight following services from one other well organized operator.
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NTSB Preliminary
NTSB Identification: CEN09FA086
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Thursday, December 11, 2008 in Sabine Pass, TX
Aircraft: BELL 206, registration: N180AL
Injuries: 5 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On December 11, 2008, approximately 0730 central standard time, a Bell 206-L4, N180AL, owned and operated by Rotorcraft Leasing Company LLC, was destroyed after impacting water eight miles south of Sabine Pass, Texas, in the Gulf of Mexico. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The non-scheduled domestic passenger flight was being conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 135 on a company flight plan. The commercial pilot and three passengers were fatally injured. One passenger is presumed to be fatally injured. The cross country flight departed Sabine Pass at 0722 and was en route to an off shore drilling platform (West Cameron 157) in the Gulf of Mexico.
According to officials with Rotorcraft Leasing Company (RLC) the pilot met his passengers in Sabine Pass the morning of the accident. Witnesses observed the pilot preflight and prepare the helicopter for the flight and the flight departed Sabine Pass at 0722. At 0725, the pilot contact RLC communications center and filed a flight plan from Sabine Pass to West Cameron 157. The pilot reported that he had four passengers on board and two hours of fuel.
RLC's communications center provides flight following services and company policy requires a 15 minute position report for every flight. The pilot did not make the required 15 minute position report and search and rescue efforts were initiated. Preliminary reports indicate the first sign of debris in the water was discovered approximately 1000. Recovery vehicles were secured, and the helicopter wreckage was located and recovered to Lafayette, Louisiana, for further examination.
The closest official weather observation station was Southeast Texas Regional Airport (KBPT), Beaumont/Port Arthur, Texas, located 35 nautical miles (nm) north of the accident site. The elevation of the weather observation station was 15 feet msl. The routine aviation weather report (METAR) for KBPT, issued at 0755, reported, winds, 300 degrees at 9 knots, visibility, 10 miles; sky condition, overcast 4,400; temperature 01 degrees Celsius (C); dewpoint, minus 01 degrees C; altimeter, 30.01 inches.
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Thursday, December 11, 2008 in Sabine Pass, TX
Aircraft: BELL 206, registration: N180AL
Injuries: 5 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On December 11, 2008, approximately 0730 central standard time, a Bell 206-L4, N180AL, owned and operated by Rotorcraft Leasing Company LLC, was destroyed after impacting water eight miles south of Sabine Pass, Texas, in the Gulf of Mexico. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The non-scheduled domestic passenger flight was being conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 135 on a company flight plan. The commercial pilot and three passengers were fatally injured. One passenger is presumed to be fatally injured. The cross country flight departed Sabine Pass at 0722 and was en route to an off shore drilling platform (West Cameron 157) in the Gulf of Mexico.
According to officials with Rotorcraft Leasing Company (RLC) the pilot met his passengers in Sabine Pass the morning of the accident. Witnesses observed the pilot preflight and prepare the helicopter for the flight and the flight departed Sabine Pass at 0722. At 0725, the pilot contact RLC communications center and filed a flight plan from Sabine Pass to West Cameron 157. The pilot reported that he had four passengers on board and two hours of fuel.
RLC's communications center provides flight following services and company policy requires a 15 minute position report for every flight. The pilot did not make the required 15 minute position report and search and rescue efforts were initiated. Preliminary reports indicate the first sign of debris in the water was discovered approximately 1000. Recovery vehicles were secured, and the helicopter wreckage was located and recovered to Lafayette, Louisiana, for further examination.
The closest official weather observation station was Southeast Texas Regional Airport (KBPT), Beaumont/Port Arthur, Texas, located 35 nautical miles (nm) north of the accident site. The elevation of the weather observation station was 15 feet msl. The routine aviation weather report (METAR) for KBPT, issued at 0755, reported, winds, 300 degrees at 9 knots, visibility, 10 miles; sky condition, overcast 4,400; temperature 01 degrees Celsius (C); dewpoint, minus 01 degrees C; altimeter, 30.01 inches.
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RLC have released adverts for both a Chief Pilot and two Communications Center Shift Supervisor.
Contact person for both is Gerry Golden at RLC.
Job Description 1:
Posted: 12/31/2008
Rotorcraft Leasing Company has an immediate opening for a Chief Pilot. The successful candidate will live in the Lafayette, LA area, have a strong management background and extensive FAR 135 offshore Gulf of Mexico experience. Competitive salary and benefits.
Job Description 2:
Posted: 12/31/2008
Rotorcraft Leasing Company has an immediate opening in the Communications Center for a "shift supervisor" with an offshore pilot background. This position will engage in flight following and exercise some operational control with regard to weather issues. The position would be suitable for a retired pilot or one without a medical certificate. The successful candidate will live in the Lafayette, LA area and work a 7/7 schedule.
Posted: 12/31/2008
Rotorcraft Leasing Company has an immediate opening for a Chief Pilot. The successful candidate will live in the Lafayette, LA area, have a strong management background and extensive FAR 135 offshore Gulf of Mexico experience. Competitive salary and benefits.
Job Description 2:
Posted: 12/31/2008
Rotorcraft Leasing Company has an immediate opening in the Communications Center for a "shift supervisor" with an offshore pilot background. This position will engage in flight following and exercise some operational control with regard to weather issues. The position would be suitable for a retired pilot or one without a medical certificate. The successful candidate will live in the Lafayette, LA area and work a 7/7 schedule.
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Mandatory Workovers for GOM operators?
First posting, great site. Considering GOM work this fall after retiring from military. I know AirLog has no "mado" overtime/workovers, but what about PHI and ERA? Did the 2006 strike improve PHI pilot quality of life? Any comments appreciated, even a smart arse one for you clever ones out there.
Hurricanes do a better job of that than anything else.....providing the nasty assed old house trailers get blown or washed away!
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************************************************************ ********************
** Report created 8/19/2009 Record 1 **
************************************************************ ********************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 495PH Make/Model: B206 Description: BELL 206B HELICOPTER
Date: 08/17/2009 Time: 1714
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
DESCRIPTION
N495PH LANDED ON OFFSHORE PLATFORM MAIN PASS 310A, AND AFTER DISCHARGING
ITS PASSENGERS BEGAN TO REFUEL WITH THE PILOT AT THE CONTROLS AND THE
ENGINE AT IDLE. THE HELIDECK WAS WET AND THE AIRCRAFT BEGAN TO SLIDE
TOWARD N204PH, WHICH WAS UNOCCUPIED AND PARKED ON THE HELIDECK. AN ATTEMPT
TO ARREST THE MOTION WITH CYCLIC APPLICATION WAS UNSUCCESSFUL AND THE
THROTTLE WAS ROLLED TO "OFF" AND THE AIRCRAFT'S ROTOR BLADES STRUCK THE
PARKED AIRCRAFT CAUSING DAMAGE TO BOTH AIRCRAFT.
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: VFR WITH RAIN, WIND 20-25 KNOTS GUSTING 30+ KNOTS
OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Standing Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: BATON ROUGE, LA (SW03) Entry date: 08/19/2009
** Report created 8/19/2009 Record 1 **
************************************************************ ********************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 495PH Make/Model: B206 Description: BELL 206B HELICOPTER
Date: 08/17/2009 Time: 1714
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
DESCRIPTION
N495PH LANDED ON OFFSHORE PLATFORM MAIN PASS 310A, AND AFTER DISCHARGING
ITS PASSENGERS BEGAN TO REFUEL WITH THE PILOT AT THE CONTROLS AND THE
ENGINE AT IDLE. THE HELIDECK WAS WET AND THE AIRCRAFT BEGAN TO SLIDE
TOWARD N204PH, WHICH WAS UNOCCUPIED AND PARKED ON THE HELIDECK. AN ATTEMPT
TO ARREST THE MOTION WITH CYCLIC APPLICATION WAS UNSUCCESSFUL AND THE
THROTTLE WAS ROLLED TO "OFF" AND THE AIRCRAFT'S ROTOR BLADES STRUCK THE
PARKED AIRCRAFT CAUSING DAMAGE TO BOTH AIRCRAFT.
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: VFR WITH RAIN, WIND 20-25 KNOTS GUSTING 30+ KNOTS
OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Standing Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: BATON ROUGE, LA (SW03) Entry date: 08/19/2009
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Having the engine at idle during the refuel (SOP at PHI) which means you can't do much if the aircraft starts to slide.
This is not the first incident of this type. Last time it happened the aircraft started to slide with the engine at idle and the pilot's cyclic input de capitated the refueler.
Aircraft should be kept at flight RPM or shutdown, idle is a no man's land.
This is not the first incident of this type. Last time it happened the aircraft started to slide with the engine at idle and the pilot's cyclic input de capitated the refueler.
Aircraft should be kept at flight RPM or shutdown, idle is a no man's land.
Why are the aircraft "sliding" to begin with? Moving decks or poor maintenance allowing the non-skid to wear off?
Good question, SAS.
During my 13 years with PHI (nine of that based on offshore platforms), I learned a thing or two about winds and helicopters. One thing was that a 206B could take up to about 20 mph of direct crosswind without sliding on metal deck that had that rough, anti-skid paint. A 206L could take up to 25 mph. (Each ship could take slightly more wind if it was loaded with full fuel.) Sometimes they would just yaw, and sometimes they would slide sideways. *ANY* angle other than perpendicular to the wind reduced the weathervaning/sliding tendency tremendously. Ninety degrees to the wind was bad. Quartering-tail was even worse.
Winter was worse than summer; we didn't get too many high-wind days in the summer unless a thunderstorm was nearby.
I cannot imagine how much direct crosswind it would take to get a 407 sliding on a deck. Or why said 407 pilot would not be cognizant of this situation and leave the engine up at 100%. Typically, PHI pilots are taught to park on the most upwind side of the helideck, so if anything the 407 "should" have been blown away from the L-model, not into it. But there are a million variations on that theme, so the "park upwind" rule is not hard and fast, and certainly not always possible.
And we were not there.
We are only left with the outcome and the explanation as it appears. If we take this explanation at face value, we end up scratching our collective heads and going, "How...?"
Maybe there's more to it.
Sometimes, when there are thunderstorms in the area, the wind can come up astonishingly quickly. Let's just be glad this one wasn't worse than it could have been.
During my 13 years with PHI (nine of that based on offshore platforms), I learned a thing or two about winds and helicopters. One thing was that a 206B could take up to about 20 mph of direct crosswind without sliding on metal deck that had that rough, anti-skid paint. A 206L could take up to 25 mph. (Each ship could take slightly more wind if it was loaded with full fuel.) Sometimes they would just yaw, and sometimes they would slide sideways. *ANY* angle other than perpendicular to the wind reduced the weathervaning/sliding tendency tremendously. Ninety degrees to the wind was bad. Quartering-tail was even worse.
Winter was worse than summer; we didn't get too many high-wind days in the summer unless a thunderstorm was nearby.
I cannot imagine how much direct crosswind it would take to get a 407 sliding on a deck. Or why said 407 pilot would not be cognizant of this situation and leave the engine up at 100%. Typically, PHI pilots are taught to park on the most upwind side of the helideck, so if anything the 407 "should" have been blown away from the L-model, not into it. But there are a million variations on that theme, so the "park upwind" rule is not hard and fast, and certainly not always possible.
And we were not there.
We are only left with the outcome and the explanation as it appears. If we take this explanation at face value, we end up scratching our collective heads and going, "How...?"
Maybe there's more to it.
Sometimes, when there are thunderstorms in the area, the wind can come up astonishingly quickly. Let's just be glad this one wasn't worse than it could have been.
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They move because there is little contact between a couple of small spots on the skids and the deck. Non-skid paint really only helps prevent slips by people walking, it's far too fragile to do much to stop something as heavy as a helicopter. The worst are wavy decks, which aren't as flat as they should be. You end up getting about 2 or 3 square inches of contact between the skids and the deck, even on a flat deck. I've had helicopters spin on me during cranking, and one turned a full 90 degrees before I could get up to idle. Bells, especially the 206/407 series, weathervane very strongly, and given a strong wind, in the 30 knot range, they're going to try to turn into the wind. The already weak tail rotor authority may not be enough, especially at idle, sometimes not even at 100% N2.