For Sale : Sea King & Black Hawks, Cheap will consder Trade in.....
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For Sale : Sea King & Black Hawks, Cheap will consder Trade in.....
NEWS HOME > NATIONAL NEWS Tuesday Jun 20 00:18 AEST
Defence to buy 34 helicopters for $2b
Monday Jun 19 22:42 AEST
Labor has demanded a government guarantee that a $2 billion helicopter deal will not turn into another costly defence bungle.
The army and navy will dump their ageing Sea Kings and Black Hawks under a plan to buy 34 Eurocopter MRH-90 advanced transport helicopters.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said an extra 34 MRH-90 helicopters, on top of 12 already on order, would allow defence to reduce from 10 to seven the number of different helicopter types.
But Labor warned that great caution was required as European countries were experiencing delays of up to two years in delivery of similar helicopters.
The MRH-90, an Australian variant of the Eurocopter NH-90, was chosen over a further buy of battle-proven US-made Black Hawks, the army's preferred choice.
Opposition defence spokesman Robert McClelland said there had been considerable delays in the NH-90 entering service with for France, Italy, Greece, Sweden and Finland with Germany reportedly considering cancelling its NH-90 acquisition.
"The defence minister must guarantee that scrupulous due diligence investigations were undertaken prior to approving the project, given problems associated with the NH-90 variant overseas," he said in a statement.
"In the past couple of months the Australian public has shaken their heads at billion dollar bungling of both the Super Seasprite and Tiger helicopter acquisitions. The government must therefore provide assurances that they are not falling into the same trap."
The MRH-90 can carry up to 20 soldiers, compared with 11 on a Black Hawk.
Prime Minister John Howard said it was anticipated MRH-90 would replace the Sea Kings, which entered service in 1974, from 2010 and the Black Hawks, which first saw service in 1988, from 2015.
"The government is providing a common platform in helicopters for both the navy and the army which will result in very significant additional efficiencies and savings and makes a great deal of commonsense," he said.
But Labor warned that the Eurocopter NH-90 was years late in entering service with European militaries.
As well, there were questions about its claimed capabilities, with the authoritative Janes Defence Weekly describing it as a developmental aircraft unproven in combat.
In recent years, the Australian Defence Force (ADF) has operated a diverse fleet of Sea Kings, Seasprites, Seahawks, Black Hawks, Chinooks, Squirrels, Iroquois and Kiowas with the new Tigers soon to enter service.
Dr Nelson said reducing the number of different types would provide many benefits.
"These benefits include greater operational flexibility and efficiency through common operational, training and logistic systems and a capability to rotate personnel, aircraft, spare parts and role-specific equipment between troop lift, special operations and maritime support commitments," he said.
They will be assembled in Brisbane at the plant of Eurocopter subsidiary Australian Aerospace which is currently assembling the army's Tiger armed reconnaissance helicopters.
Australian Aerospace chief executive Joseph Saporito said MRH-90 contracts would generate 400 skilled jobs and inject $1.1 billion into the Australian economy.
"This decision creates the prospect of Australia becoming more involved in the global helicopter supply chain, more exports from Australia, more jobs, the development of new skills in the latest composite fibre manufacturing and construction techniques and more investment by Australian Aerospace," he said in a statement.
Defence to buy 34 helicopters for $2b
Monday Jun 19 22:42 AEST
Labor has demanded a government guarantee that a $2 billion helicopter deal will not turn into another costly defence bungle.
The army and navy will dump their ageing Sea Kings and Black Hawks under a plan to buy 34 Eurocopter MRH-90 advanced transport helicopters.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said an extra 34 MRH-90 helicopters, on top of 12 already on order, would allow defence to reduce from 10 to seven the number of different helicopter types.
But Labor warned that great caution was required as European countries were experiencing delays of up to two years in delivery of similar helicopters.
The MRH-90, an Australian variant of the Eurocopter NH-90, was chosen over a further buy of battle-proven US-made Black Hawks, the army's preferred choice.
Opposition defence spokesman Robert McClelland said there had been considerable delays in the NH-90 entering service with for France, Italy, Greece, Sweden and Finland with Germany reportedly considering cancelling its NH-90 acquisition.
"The defence minister must guarantee that scrupulous due diligence investigations were undertaken prior to approving the project, given problems associated with the NH-90 variant overseas," he said in a statement.
"In the past couple of months the Australian public has shaken their heads at billion dollar bungling of both the Super Seasprite and Tiger helicopter acquisitions. The government must therefore provide assurances that they are not falling into the same trap."
The MRH-90 can carry up to 20 soldiers, compared with 11 on a Black Hawk.
Prime Minister John Howard said it was anticipated MRH-90 would replace the Sea Kings, which entered service in 1974, from 2010 and the Black Hawks, which first saw service in 1988, from 2015.
"The government is providing a common platform in helicopters for both the navy and the army which will result in very significant additional efficiencies and savings and makes a great deal of commonsense," he said.
But Labor warned that the Eurocopter NH-90 was years late in entering service with European militaries.
As well, there were questions about its claimed capabilities, with the authoritative Janes Defence Weekly describing it as a developmental aircraft unproven in combat.
In recent years, the Australian Defence Force (ADF) has operated a diverse fleet of Sea Kings, Seasprites, Seahawks, Black Hawks, Chinooks, Squirrels, Iroquois and Kiowas with the new Tigers soon to enter service.
Dr Nelson said reducing the number of different types would provide many benefits.
"These benefits include greater operational flexibility and efficiency through common operational, training and logistic systems and a capability to rotate personnel, aircraft, spare parts and role-specific equipment between troop lift, special operations and maritime support commitments," he said.
They will be assembled in Brisbane at the plant of Eurocopter subsidiary Australian Aerospace which is currently assembling the army's Tiger armed reconnaissance helicopters.
Australian Aerospace chief executive Joseph Saporito said MRH-90 contracts would generate 400 skilled jobs and inject $1.1 billion into the Australian economy.
"This decision creates the prospect of Australia becoming more involved in the global helicopter supply chain, more exports from Australia, more jobs, the development of new skills in the latest composite fibre manufacturing and construction techniques and more investment by Australian Aerospace," he said in a statement.
Seems to me this concept is flawed from the Git Go. It sounds to me like too many eggs in one basket and ignores a proven design with established spares system and corporate knowledge about the type and opts for an unproven design from new with all the problems that will entail.
Any takers on a bet....I say this deal will make the Sea Sprite fiasco look like nothing.
Any takers on a bet....I say this deal will make the Sea Sprite fiasco look like nothing.
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Have Mini Cooper for trade in
I was thinking it would be good to get hold of these... surplus helo's, do nothing with them then rent them back to the Def boffins after the new helo's dont get airborne as often as they would like.
Ok who is with me?
Ok who is with me?
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SASLess, while the Sea King history is not exactly perfect (I was on Sea Kings for 5 years), the Black Hawk history isn't either (I was on Blacks Hawks for 6 years). Sikorsky has admitted that there are known cracking problems with the aircraft and we have had countless times of aircraft pulled apart for cabin pillar, txmn mount and ESSS mount cracking problems. The stores system is very slow to supply parts from the states and we have had more mods and Special Technical Instructions than Iroquois and Kiowa put together. The Black Hawk isn't a bad aircraft, its just not suited to everything we ask it to do. The bean counters have a lot to answer for with regards to the initial out fitting of the aircraft with all its "optional extra's" and the Army for its operational philosophy. As for coporate knowledge, thats an urban myth. The whole of the Australian Defence helicopter fleet is run by people who have been only short time on the aircraft. Gone are the days when you spend your entire career on a couple or one type, we are constantly training people and the senior maintainers aren't staying around or are posted else where. The knowledge level of the maintainers is what we need to maintain. Me, I'm looking forward to the MRH-90.
