EH101 / HMA.1 Engine photos
Thread Starter
EH101 / HMA.1 Engine photos
I'm building a model Merlin helo, and some details are missing. Going along with building it, i've been learning a lot, but not enough. I need some help from guys who have been in actual contact with the beast.
Are there any photos available capturing some glimps of the engine compartment? I've been searching the web, and no resoults. If not, any GE CT7-6 than?
How are the engines numbered? From left to right 1-3 or is the central engine nr. 3?
I' ve been wondering about these "intake" holes labeled "Fire Access" What are they for? Is that chrome stick inside a grip handle or something? These are located on every engine, on the side and on the top side.
While you are at it, what are these "another exhaust tubes" linked to the main chimney?
Are there any photos available capturing some glimps of the engine compartment? I've been searching the web, and no resoults. If not, any GE CT7-6 than?
How are the engines numbered? From left to right 1-3 or is the central engine nr. 3?
I' ve been wondering about these "intake" holes labeled "Fire Access" What are they for? Is that chrome stick inside a grip handle or something? These are located on every engine, on the side and on the top side.
While you are at it, what are these "another exhaust tubes" linked to the main chimney?
Last edited by Phoinix; 10th Jun 2006 at 14:16.
I've been flying with one of the pre-production test pilots on the 101 project. He tells me that the engines are numbered 1 on the left hand side, three in the centre and two on the right hand side. The engines shown are Rolls Royce RTMs and not CT 7s . Will you put on the pics of your model when you have finished it ITI
Thread Starter
Sorry, my bad on the engines. GE's are probalby for US market, right? Thank you for the info ITI.
Here are a few in-progress shots:
Wilco, pics will be displayed when finished.
Here are a few in-progress shots:
Wilco, pics will be displayed when finished.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Daylight Saving Free Zone
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I' ve been wondering about these "intake" holes labeled "Fire Access" What are they for?
Here is a link to EH 101/102 seating arrangements (as provided by Gooooooogle) ...
http://www.hku.hk/csuhp/roomgal_eh.htm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
correct info
Ther are ome people that tell enormous porkies on this site..
Impress. I would love to know which TP you flew with, the initials will do, as I actually to happen to know most of the 101 TPs and the info you quoted is completely wrong (actually I think you made it up)
Phoenix, very nice job, is that the Italeri or Revell kit?
Here are the answers
Engines are numbered left to right, 1 (port) , 2 (middle) and 3 (stbd)
The apertures on the cowlings are auxiliary fire extinguisher holes and act a cooling air intakes for the engine bay eductors. The silver rod is the support strut that supports the cowlings when open, it is only on the side openings on no1 and 3
The other exhaust is the outlet for the inlet particle seperator and is always on the port side of the engine
here is a link to the Rolls Royce site that has pics of the RTM322 as fitted to the Merlin
http://www.rolls-royce.com/defence_a...22/default.jsp
I look fwd to seeing the completed model
DM
Impress. I would love to know which TP you flew with, the initials will do, as I actually to happen to know most of the 101 TPs and the info you quoted is completely wrong (actually I think you made it up)
Phoenix, very nice job, is that the Italeri or Revell kit?
Here are the answers
Engines are numbered left to right, 1 (port) , 2 (middle) and 3 (stbd)
The apertures on the cowlings are auxiliary fire extinguisher holes and act a cooling air intakes for the engine bay eductors. The silver rod is the support strut that supports the cowlings when open, it is only on the side openings on no1 and 3
The other exhaust is the outlet for the inlet particle seperator and is always on the port side of the engine
here is a link to the Rolls Royce site that has pics of the RTM322 as fitted to the Merlin
http://www.rolls-royce.com/defence_a...22/default.jsp
I look fwd to seeing the completed model
DM
Thread Starter
It's Italeri, but in general, kits are the same, same mould.
Thank you for the info. Italeri sure got it wrong with the "other exhaust", always pointing away from the fuselage.
Thank you again! I'll have to make some corrections i guess.
Thank you for the info. Italeri sure got it wrong with the "other exhaust", always pointing away from the fuselage.
Thank you again! I'll have to make some corrections i guess.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good site DangerMouse. That's 1735 kW for 244.5 kg or 7.1kW/kg - i'm just keeping tally for my own comparative purposes (helicopter engine feasibility study).
The power is maximum take-off power? What else is needed in the weight for installation into an actual helicopter? Is there any way of obtaining more engineering data? I'm specifically thinking BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) and engine efficiency maps.
Great model Phoinix! I have a Concorde still in it's box (I'm quite a fan) - maybe i should learn a trick or two from you first. BTW what purpose does the fairing above the pilots serve? Is this part of the system to remove particulates from engine ingestion?
Mart
The power is maximum take-off power? What else is needed in the weight for installation into an actual helicopter? Is there any way of obtaining more engineering data? I'm specifically thinking BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) and engine efficiency maps.
Great model Phoinix! I have a Concorde still in it's box (I'm quite a fan) - maybe i should learn a trick or two from you first. BTW what purpose does the fairing above the pilots serve? Is this part of the system to remove particulates from engine ingestion?
Mart
Last edited by Graviman; 11th Jun 2006 at 11:57.
Thread Starter
Thank you Graviman. Building plastic models is easy, as long as you pay attention to little details. Condcorde is a beautiful bird, don't keep it in a box, show it off. That thing above the pilots is the sun screen
It's actualy there
I was comparing the different versions of 101, and i have come accross a question. Why does the UK merlin have single wheel on the main landing gear, italian navy has a pair, others also. What's the story behind that?
It's actualy there
I was comparing the different versions of 101, and i have come accross a question. Why does the UK merlin have single wheel on the main landing gear, italian navy has a pair, others also. What's the story behind that?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: the hills of halton
Age: 71
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sprocket is the overhead projector in the picture you provided link to for the pre flight briefing ?. I saw the fuselage mockup for the Wg34 in Yeovil around 1979 , it has grown quite a bit since then.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Phoinix
How are the engines numbered? From left to right 1-3 or is the central engine nr. 3?
Originally Posted by Graviman
That's 1735 kW for 244.5 kg or 7.1kW/kg - i'm just keeping tally for my own comparative purposes (helicopter engine feasibility study)
Originally Posted by Graviman
BTW what purpose does the fairing above the pilots serve? Is this part of the system to remove particulates from engine ingestion?
Originally Posted by Phoinix
Thank you for the info. Italeri sure got it wrong with the "other exhaust", always pointing away from the fuselage.
I/C
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the engine and fairing info, Iain. I meant to ask was the fairing shape an aerodynamic feature helping with particle seperation. I guess they must have done a lot of wind tunnel time to find a shape to package the various actuators, connectors, reservoirs etc. Just looks like the idea was to have relatively laminar flow past the engine intakes in forward flight.
Mart
Mart
Dangermouse, the person I am flying with was one of the civil TP's payed for by Westland in the 90's when the 101s had the underpowered CT7s. He recalls that the engines were numbered in the Tristar style as I mentioned. Your initials arent TN are they ? The civie test flights were done in Southern Italy from 96 onward. Hope this answers your problems in life. No deliberate porkies have been posted by me, as I have just said "He recalls".
I think you will find they were BHL line pilots (plus TREs), not TPs.
I can hardly imagine TN asking this question (earlier thread):
What defines how many pilots a Civilian helicopter needs? Why can a military variant of an aircraft fly with 1 pilot yet the civil aircraft needs 2?
is it a size thing?
any advice from JAR?FAR?BCAR would help
thanx
DM
I can hardly imagine TN asking this question (earlier thread):
What defines how many pilots a Civilian helicopter needs? Why can a military variant of an aircraft fly with 1 pilot yet the civil aircraft needs 2?
is it a size thing?
any advice from JAR?FAR?BCAR would help
thanx
DM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK
OK impress, point made and taken, his recall was incorrect
My initials are not TN
As for single wheels, the deck handling system on the Type 23 frigate will not work with a twin wheel undercarriage and the Merlin Mk1 doesnt need to land on soft ground (according to the specification).
The only other aircraft with single wheels is the first Japanese aircraft used by the Tokyo police.
FAA/CAA/JAA rules mandated that the 101 be flown twin pilot, as it is certified as a passenger carrying aircraft to BCAR section G, FAA29 etc.
The RAF crew the front with 2, only one needs to be a pilot however. The RN use 1 due to the requirement to have minimum crew on a ship. Actually the front end has a different layout than other variant to ccount for that.
DM
My initials are not TN
As for single wheels, the deck handling system on the Type 23 frigate will not work with a twin wheel undercarriage and the Merlin Mk1 doesnt need to land on soft ground (according to the specification).
The only other aircraft with single wheels is the first Japanese aircraft used by the Tokyo police.
FAA/CAA/JAA rules mandated that the 101 be flown twin pilot, as it is certified as a passenger carrying aircraft to BCAR section G, FAA29 etc.
The RAF crew the front with 2, only one needs to be a pilot however. The RN use 1 due to the requirement to have minimum crew on a ship. Actually the front end has a different layout than other variant to ccount for that.
DM
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by dangermouse
The only other aircraft with single wheels is the first Japanese aircraft used by the Tokyo police
I/C
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sunny Florida, USA
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Merlin Single Wheels
Dangermouse - you are quite correct that single wheels will only work with the frigate deck handling system but that is not the reason that the Merlin HM Mk 1 has single wheels. Once upon a time the Merlin Mk 1 design included twin wheels - if you think about the redundancy, safety issues and ability to land on weaker surfaces (with the current Merlin max weight it is currently very limited where it can land and taxi - and I mean at airports too!) it would make sense to have twin wheels would it not? Then somewhere in the procurement process the MOD were looking to make some savings measures as they apparently ran out of cash one year - so they opted to save some money by only fitting single main wheels - then they designed the deck handling system around that design and now it's much too expensive to revert to the safer and more operationally desireable twin wheels as the handling system would need to be completely redesigned! This is very typical of most MOD projects!
The Ferret
The Ferret
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
absolute b******s !!!!!
Yeovil calling
I have been involved with the aircraft for over 15 years and yet the BS piles higher and higher
The spec for the aircraft ALWAYS had a single wheel requirement, saving costs had nothing to do with it. The ship deck handling system was frozen before a twin wheel system was ever flown and all the prototype aircraft had single wheels. The decision was taken at productionisation to change the undercarriage installation to allow a twin wheel to be fitted if other cutomers required it, and as I said previously the aircraft meets the RN specification. Intersetingly it is not the main wheels that would be the problem but the nosewheels which are different between single/twin U/C.
The only additional limit that a single wheel places on the aircraft is not to operate on very soft ground (CBR<5) which frnakly for a shipborne ASW aircraft is hardly a problem, all other ground limits are common (including operating at 60 kts at max weight) between undercarriage systems. With regards to airfield operations the Mk1 is no more limited than a Tornado or Typhoon (work out the ground loading per tyre) so your statement bout limited ares of operation is strange.
There are obvious cost and weight savings associated with a single wheel main undercarriage that cannot be ignored but to say that the driver was just cost is patently untrue. Why fit something you can do without (WHL would have been taken to the cleaners for trying that one on!). Actually putting a single wheel on the Mk1 would tend to increase costs in any case as the oleo characteristics, nose gear, wheels and hubs are now unique among all military variants.
Ian C, in my response I ignored the development aircraft as the undercarriage system on those cannot take a twin wheel anyway, and the Heliliner was PP8 (yes I know WHL are still waiting for the launch order but I suppose the VH71 is close to the same job !!).
looking fwd to putting more myths to bed.....
DM
I have been involved with the aircraft for over 15 years and yet the BS piles higher and higher
The spec for the aircraft ALWAYS had a single wheel requirement, saving costs had nothing to do with it. The ship deck handling system was frozen before a twin wheel system was ever flown and all the prototype aircraft had single wheels. The decision was taken at productionisation to change the undercarriage installation to allow a twin wheel to be fitted if other cutomers required it, and as I said previously the aircraft meets the RN specification. Intersetingly it is not the main wheels that would be the problem but the nosewheels which are different between single/twin U/C.
The only additional limit that a single wheel places on the aircraft is not to operate on very soft ground (CBR<5) which frnakly for a shipborne ASW aircraft is hardly a problem, all other ground limits are common (including operating at 60 kts at max weight) between undercarriage systems. With regards to airfield operations the Mk1 is no more limited than a Tornado or Typhoon (work out the ground loading per tyre) so your statement bout limited ares of operation is strange.
There are obvious cost and weight savings associated with a single wheel main undercarriage that cannot be ignored but to say that the driver was just cost is patently untrue. Why fit something you can do without (WHL would have been taken to the cleaners for trying that one on!). Actually putting a single wheel on the Mk1 would tend to increase costs in any case as the oleo characteristics, nose gear, wheels and hubs are now unique among all military variants.
Ian C, in my response I ignored the development aircraft as the undercarriage system on those cannot take a twin wheel anyway, and the Heliliner was PP8 (yes I know WHL are still waiting for the launch order but I suppose the VH71 is close to the same job !!).
looking fwd to putting more myths to bed.....
DM