AS350 Astar/Squirrel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Under
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Thanks Widgeon and Phoenix. What the Squirrel needs is better air vents like the Bells and then there's no need for airconditioning (unless in extremes of temps)!
rgds
rgds
AS-350B2/3 High Fuel Consumption
Has anyone experienced either abnormally high cruise fuel consumption or problems with the accuracy of the fuel indicating system on the AS-350 B2 or B3?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1 deg south, avoiding Malaria P Falciparium
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There have been some problems and possible related accidents in regards to accuracy of fuel gauges in the older B2' and BA's. They had a float type fuel senseing sytem that would stick when it wore and got old. I believe there was a SB or an AD out on it. All the new A/C have a capacitance system and you can buy the kit for 11k to replace the old one.
The B3 sucks alot more gas than a b2, and the b2 more than the ba. Noticeably so.
RB
The B3 sucks alot more gas than a b2, and the b2 more than the ba. Noticeably so.
RB
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: East of 105'E
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Having some time in both, here is my 2 cents worth.
180-190lts/hr or 30% per hour for the B2 and 220-230lts/hr for the B3.
Beer in mind that is just what I have experienced
180-190lts/hr or 30% per hour for the B2 and 220-230lts/hr for the B3.
Beer in mind that is just what I have experienced
"Just a pilot"
AS350 blades, winds, and tiedown/braces
Would appreciate a Eurocopter citation for securing the rotor.
I'm having a technical disagreement- one party is concerned about the starflex, the other with the blades and the effect of unrestrained flapping. Specific issue- The blades must be immobilized, braced and tied above "x" windspeed (40 knots?)? Up to that point, autorotation is the only issue?
I believe this is addressed in the maintenance manual.
I'm having a technical disagreement- one party is concerned about the starflex, the other with the blades and the effect of unrestrained flapping. Specific issue- The blades must be immobilized, braced and tied above "x" windspeed (40 knots?)? Up to that point, autorotation is the only issue?
I believe this is addressed in the maintenance manual.
10% = 20 minutes
10% = 40 miles
10% = 100 pounds
The higher you are the better these numbers. But for anything between 3,000 ft and 9,000 ft thes numbers have been very constant fo me.
10% = 40 miles
10% = 100 pounds
The higher you are the better these numbers. But for anything between 3,000 ft and 9,000 ft thes numbers have been very constant fo me.
This is purely from memory, and I'm assuming the 350 limits are the same as the 355; beyond 20kts tie downs required, beyond 60kts hangarage is recommended. I could get you a maintenance manual reference in a few days if no-one else comes up with it.
I remember having several AS355 in for an overhaul and all the blades where scraped, because they where never tied down. I can only suggest to tie them down all the time.
"Just a pilot"
Droopy, the maintenance manual citation is exactly what I'm looking for- if and when it's convenient, I'd appreciate it. The aircraft subject to this disagreement is a B2, same head and blades as a 355.
Rotorbee- It's an EMS A/C, so time is important, the tie-down kit we're using is horrible and prompted the discussion. Specifics motivating change and supporting documents...
Rotorbee- It's an EMS A/C, so time is important, the tie-down kit we're using is horrible and prompted the discussion. Specifics motivating change and supporting documents...
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chilly Jocko Land
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Squirrel Tie downs
I have never split a starfex head using tie-downs. Here is the method taught in Donouworth and Marsaille.
Tie the main rotor down at it's median point..ie leave it where it is when no wind is blowing, let it jerk all over the place all night, check it in the morning before you fly, 99 percent of the time it will be worth flying.
If you tie it down FFS don't drop it two inches as you might on a different head you will bust that starflex and that equals an expensive repair.
Para 2 applies to factory courses as taught on As350, As355, as365 and EC135.
Talk to the guys who design and build the things if you don't believe me.
I have been fixing these types for over 20 years,some just happen (no wind, no flex), some are engineer/pilot/handler lack of knowledge), most are avoidable.
Take care
4R
Tie the main rotor down at it's median point..ie leave it where it is when no wind is blowing, let it jerk all over the place all night, check it in the morning before you fly, 99 percent of the time it will be worth flying.
If you tie it down FFS don't drop it two inches as you might on a different head you will bust that starflex and that equals an expensive repair.
Para 2 applies to factory courses as taught on As350, As355, as365 and EC135.
Talk to the guys who design and build the things if you don't believe me.
I have been fixing these types for over 20 years,some just happen (no wind, no flex), some are engineer/pilot/handler lack of knowledge), most are avoidable.
Take care
4R
Join Date: Jan 2003
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FWIW
In my experience, with the B model STA 1000 cracks occurred due to not tying the blades down in even the slightest amount of wind. The cracks are on the lower side from compression.
The 355 grey blades tend to crack on the upper side at about mid point. Why - who knows.
IMHO Starflex damage comes from droop stop pounding on shutdown with the cyclic not centred.
Not a definitive answer, just personal experience.
The 355 grey blades tend to crack on the upper side at about mid point. Why - who knows.
IMHO Starflex damage comes from droop stop pounding on shutdown with the cyclic not centred.
Not a definitive answer, just personal experience.
I thank one and all for your responses. I did a fuel consumption check of the subject aircraft and found that it agrees with your inputs. It appears as if we had a pilot experience issue. Your responses will help with our training.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
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Jack
I gave myself a surprise on a long ferry flight in a B2. Experience was an issue then as well since I had 1:30 on type when I left UK. Cruising at 1000ft through Europe was giving me 35-36% per hour (instead of the 30% I had been expecting) and an endurance of 2:35 to chicken fuel. Later, through Egypt I was up at 11,000ft and it was around 24% per hour and I was staying up for 3:25. Subsequently I did some graphs for my own use in Ethiopia which was very helpful.
The fuel consumption presentation in the flight manual was not very useful on the subject.
Great aircraft though, I wish I had one now!
I gave myself a surprise on a long ferry flight in a B2. Experience was an issue then as well since I had 1:30 on type when I left UK. Cruising at 1000ft through Europe was giving me 35-36% per hour (instead of the 30% I had been expecting) and an endurance of 2:35 to chicken fuel. Later, through Egypt I was up at 11,000ft and it was around 24% per hour and I was staying up for 3:25. Subsequently I did some graphs for my own use in Ethiopia which was very helpful.
The fuel consumption presentation in the flight manual was not very useful on the subject.
Great aircraft though, I wish I had one now!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: United States
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as350 blades
Over the 12 years of operating the 350, we have had great success using blade stands when ever the helicopter is on the ground, in a hangar or otherwise (under all wind conditions). The blade stand consists of an adjustable aluminium pole with a blade cradle which slides over the end of the blade, and then is adjusted to unload the starflex whilst supporting the blade at the end in a lightly loaded configuration.
We started doing this religiously following some blade and starflex issues and we have never had a single problem since (over 10 years). Our starflexes always go to SLL and the first problem we suffer with the baldes shows up in paint erosion, no delaminating of leading edges or anything else. It works extremely well.
Hope this helps.
We started doing this religiously following some blade and starflex issues and we have never had a single problem since (over 10 years). Our starflexes always go to SLL and the first problem we suffer with the baldes shows up in paint erosion, no delaminating of leading edges or anything else. It works extremely well.
Hope this helps.
MJB,
I believe that we experienced the same situation that you described. The long leg was flown at 1000MSL. If he had climbed to 7K or 8K, he would have had plenty of fuel. You are right the AS 350 is a sweet aircraft to fly. That comes from an old S-76 pilot.
Thanks Again
Jack
I believe that we experienced the same situation that you described. The long leg was flown at 1000MSL. If he had climbed to 7K or 8K, he would have had plenty of fuel. You are right the AS 350 is a sweet aircraft to fly. That comes from an old S-76 pilot.
Thanks Again
Jack
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canada
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The Transportation Safety Board of Canada recently released the report of a fatal AS350 accident.
Report:
From the report:...
3.1 Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
After experiencing a hydraulic system failure, the helicopter departed controlled flight and crashed while manoeuvring for landing. The reason for the departure from controlled flight could not be determined.
It is likely that the hydraulic pump drive belt failed in flight, precipitating the hydraulic failure.
It is likely that the hydraulic circuit breaker was in the tripped position in flight, rendering the hydraulic CUTOFF and HYD TEST switches inoperative. This would result in hydraulic pressure from the main-rotor servos being depleted asymmetrically
Report http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/...2/A03O0012.asp
Report:
From the report:...
3.1 Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
After experiencing a hydraulic system failure, the helicopter departed controlled flight and crashed while manoeuvring for landing. The reason for the departure from controlled flight could not be determined.
It is likely that the hydraulic pump drive belt failed in flight, precipitating the hydraulic failure.
It is likely that the hydraulic circuit breaker was in the tripped position in flight, rendering the hydraulic CUTOFF and HYD TEST switches inoperative. This would result in hydraulic pressure from the main-rotor servos being depleted asymmetrically
Report http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/...2/A03O0012.asp
Join Date: Aug 2003
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I agree completely with 407D, don't ever think this is somthing that will give you warning. I consider myself VERY lucky to be able to describe when I first experienced this situation. I was in cruise flight, no pax, looking for an oil rig in northern BC (this was 1980, before GPS) I got down low over the trees to see if I could see the derrick over the tops, there it was a mile away. I stayed low and once over the rig started a what I would not call an agressive cyclic climb to the right. The cyclic froze in my hand, the next few moments seemed like an eternity, really maybe 2 or 3 seconds but something I will never forget.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Astar, one of the nicest a/c I have ever flown, but as in all a/c treat it with respect.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Astar, one of the nicest a/c I have ever flown, but as in all a/c treat it with respect.