Visa for training in America
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Rotorboy,
of course why schould you care, you allready have a license but people for countries where a pilot training is unafordable and with no job-prospectives for a job with 150 - 200 hrs.
Anyone knows when they want to start those changes?
of course why schould you care, you allready have a license but people for countries where a pilot training is unafordable and with no job-prospectives for a job with 150 - 200 hrs.
Anyone knows when they want to start those changes?
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Rotor boy,
Take your head out of your arse and stop being a dick!
If it wasnt for schools like this many pilots would not be able to fulfil their dream.
Its not my fault that the JAA system is so expensive and a load of crap. I for one am going through the J1 visa myself and im loving it. Ive met some great pilots and the change of scenery is out of this world.
I bet you have never even been to one of the said schools and seen the quality of training they produce.
Just because you are fortunate enough to be able to fly in a land with so many opportunities, dont go hammering on people who are not as fortunate as you.
Beleive me if i could have done it back home, i would. Would you like to pay double for ALL of your training!!! I dont think so.
So if you have nothing good to say go back to your gloomy little corner and take this
and stick it back where the sun dont shine!
R22
Take your head out of your arse and stop being a dick!
If it wasnt for schools like this many pilots would not be able to fulfil their dream.
Its not my fault that the JAA system is so expensive and a load of crap. I for one am going through the J1 visa myself and im loving it. Ive met some great pilots and the change of scenery is out of this world.
I bet you have never even been to one of the said schools and seen the quality of training they produce.
Just because you are fortunate enough to be able to fly in a land with so many opportunities, dont go hammering on people who are not as fortunate as you.
Beleive me if i could have done it back home, i would. Would you like to pay double for ALL of your training!!! I dont think so.
So if you have nothing good to say go back to your gloomy little corner and take this
and stick it back where the sun dont shine!R22
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Anyone have any idea how many J1 helicopter pilots there at any one time in the US? Am I right in thinking that HAI is the only J1 certified helicopter training establishment in the US, (or are they the only one that also does a CAA certified course?) If yes then how many J1 grads do they release each year, compared to all the other native US CPL-IRs throughout the nation? My point is that is the (possible) end of the J1 scheme really going to do much to raise US instructor rates when there's still going to be a lot of home-grown new instructors out there hungry for their first job?
Hopefully if there are any changes it wouldn't go so far as to stop people paying to train in the US, merely to stop them working afterwards. So the J1 schools should still be able to benefit from the comparative low cost to JAR-land both for training and subsequent hour building.
Si
Hopefully if there are any changes it wouldn't go so far as to stop people paying to train in the US, merely to stop them working afterwards. So the J1 schools should still be able to benefit from the comparative low cost to JAR-land both for training and subsequent hour building.
Si
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Simon,
The M1 visa is already in place. That allows you to train but not to work. Alot of schools are able to offer the M1. There are only 2 schools at the moment that are credited to offer the J1.
They are both exceptional and have very high standards and i know if the J1 is altered they will both suffer as a result.
Controller,
Please could you PM me. I tried to send you a message but you are not enabled. There is something i wish to talk to you about.
R22
The M1 visa is already in place. That allows you to train but not to work. Alot of schools are able to offer the M1. There are only 2 schools at the moment that are credited to offer the J1.
They are both exceptional and have very high standards and i know if the J1 is altered they will both suffer as a result.
Controller,
Please could you PM me. I tried to send you a message but you are not enabled. There is something i wish to talk to you about.
R22
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On Wednesday (May 31, 2006) there was a meeting in Washington between the Director of the J-1 Program and the representatives of the currently approved J-1 flight schools. The Helicopter Association, AOPA and NATA were instrumental in getting this meeting arranged and they were all represented there too. To cut a long story short the J-1 program as we currently know it is safe and will continue. The Program Director wants it to be moved from the US Department of State to the Dept of Homeland Security. He acknowledged that it is an excellent program that has caused them little or no problems but he feels that DHS should be the oversight agency for all flight training visas. He tried to move the program last year but got little cooperation from DHS, not because they don't want it but because they were too busy to handle the transfer process.
Over the next few months the flight schools and the trade organizations will work together to have the program moved to DHS. The HAI and AOPA representatives expressed confidence that this can be achieved and the J-1 Program Director pledged his full support for the process. He also guaranteed that providing the schools make a genuine effort to acomplish this transfer he will continue to let the program run in its current form through his department.
What this all means for current students on J-1 visas, or those who are likely to take training in 2006, is that they will see no changes whatsoever. At some point in the next 12 months (my guess would be around Jan 2007) the program will move to DHS and be given a new name but will continue to have the benefits that it has now.
Other issues raised above:
To work on a J-1 you must be doing flight instruction. I dont think anyone cares about an occasional photo flight or sightseeing tour but working fulltime as a tour pilot is not allowed. I know that my school (HAI) and Hillsboro make this very clear to J-1 participants and we have taken action to prevent pilots from violating the rule when we knew about it. We would not risk our designations so that someone can get a couple of hundred hours of turbine time. In every group however there will be someone who tries to push the limits. However, don't jump to conclusions about someone's visa status - they may be married to an American or have found some other way to remain legally in the US.
For those who think "the factory schools" are flooding the market bear in mind that there are only two J-1 approved schools and we are both limited to a maximum number of J-1 visas. At HAI our limit is 100 per year and I think Hillsboro is lower and they do fixed-wing training too. When you take into account the fact that some students don't finish for all sorts of reasons, and some find work at home without having to work as a CFI here first, the total number of pilots being added to the pool on an annual basis is probably about 100 and they all run out of visa time after approximately a year. Considering the growth in the helicopter industry and the number of older pilots retiring this revolving group of 100 beginner pilots is not making any impact on the overall career prospects of American pilots. In fact it's a good thing that they are there to provide the instruction when a young American decides to become a helicopter pilot. There is a "factory school" trying to flood the market right now but it is not a J-1 approved school and the owner boasts that he does not accept foreign trainees or fly foreign made helicopters. He charges $72,000 for what HAI or Hillsboro provide for about $50k so perhaps Rotorboy should talk to him about running up training costs and flooding the market (they boast that they have 2000+ students currently enrolled).
Those who have a problem with the J-1 program are really going to come unglued if/when President Bush gets his way and the Guest Worker Visa Program is passed. It will apply to helicopter pilots and it will make it possible for US companies to hire foreigners. That should create a new dilemma for some Rotorheads - both the US supporters and the foreign detractors of our Pres.
Finally, the reason the UK does not qualify for the visa lottery is because all countries that get more than 50,000 immigrant visas for the US annually are excluded. I guess the theory is that you guys are already doing quite well.
Anyone who would like more info on the above is welcome to call me or email at [email protected]
PC
Over the next few months the flight schools and the trade organizations will work together to have the program moved to DHS. The HAI and AOPA representatives expressed confidence that this can be achieved and the J-1 Program Director pledged his full support for the process. He also guaranteed that providing the schools make a genuine effort to acomplish this transfer he will continue to let the program run in its current form through his department.
What this all means for current students on J-1 visas, or those who are likely to take training in 2006, is that they will see no changes whatsoever. At some point in the next 12 months (my guess would be around Jan 2007) the program will move to DHS and be given a new name but will continue to have the benefits that it has now.
Other issues raised above:
To work on a J-1 you must be doing flight instruction. I dont think anyone cares about an occasional photo flight or sightseeing tour but working fulltime as a tour pilot is not allowed. I know that my school (HAI) and Hillsboro make this very clear to J-1 participants and we have taken action to prevent pilots from violating the rule when we knew about it. We would not risk our designations so that someone can get a couple of hundred hours of turbine time. In every group however there will be someone who tries to push the limits. However, don't jump to conclusions about someone's visa status - they may be married to an American or have found some other way to remain legally in the US.
For those who think "the factory schools" are flooding the market bear in mind that there are only two J-1 approved schools and we are both limited to a maximum number of J-1 visas. At HAI our limit is 100 per year and I think Hillsboro is lower and they do fixed-wing training too. When you take into account the fact that some students don't finish for all sorts of reasons, and some find work at home without having to work as a CFI here first, the total number of pilots being added to the pool on an annual basis is probably about 100 and they all run out of visa time after approximately a year. Considering the growth in the helicopter industry and the number of older pilots retiring this revolving group of 100 beginner pilots is not making any impact on the overall career prospects of American pilots. In fact it's a good thing that they are there to provide the instruction when a young American decides to become a helicopter pilot. There is a "factory school" trying to flood the market right now but it is not a J-1 approved school and the owner boasts that he does not accept foreign trainees or fly foreign made helicopters. He charges $72,000 for what HAI or Hillsboro provide for about $50k so perhaps Rotorboy should talk to him about running up training costs and flooding the market (they boast that they have 2000+ students currently enrolled).
Those who have a problem with the J-1 program are really going to come unglued if/when President Bush gets his way and the Guest Worker Visa Program is passed. It will apply to helicopter pilots and it will make it possible for US companies to hire foreigners. That should create a new dilemma for some Rotorheads - both the US supporters and the foreign detractors of our Pres.
Finally, the reason the UK does not qualify for the visa lottery is because all countries that get more than 50,000 immigrant visas for the US annually are excluded. I guess the theory is that you guys are already doing quite well.
Anyone who would like more info on the above is welcome to call me or email at [email protected]
PC
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Patrick.
Thank you for clearing that up.
I came into this country on a J-1 and after 14 months am now employed as a flight instructor. I am grateful that I can teach here in this country thanks to the J-1. Its far more affordable to do the training here than the UK as well as the regulations being far more flexible.
Shame you feel so bitter Rotorboy!!!
Thank you for clearing that up.
I came into this country on a J-1 and after 14 months am now employed as a flight instructor. I am grateful that I can teach here in this country thanks to the J-1. Its far more affordable to do the training here than the UK as well as the regulations being far more flexible.
Shame you feel so bitter Rotorboy!!!
Training Costs
50k is a conservative estimate for training costs to include Commercial, IR, and CFI: Base qualifications for most new pilots to get a first job in the US. If you are studious &/or talented &/or lucky and do it in minimums, maybe you'll only spend 50k. Most people I have encountered have spent more. A budget based on things going other than seamlessly may be more realistic and save nasty surprises and stress.
A phrase seldom heard: "My training cost me much less than I had imagined"
TT
A phrase seldom heard: "My training cost me much less than I had imagined"
TT
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Is this possible?:
A non-american student trains on a M-1 in the US. He does not get hired as an instructor by the school he trained on (which can extend the visa) after he finished his program. He goes home and is looking for a job by the internet for a CFI(I) position and get hired.
question: Is it possible that when you apply for a job but you don't have a visa, that your employer will issue one. Or is this not likely?
A non-american student trains on a M-1 in the US. He does not get hired as an instructor by the school he trained on (which can extend the visa) after he finished his program. He goes home and is looking for a job by the internet for a CFI(I) position and get hired.
question: Is it possible that when you apply for a job but you don't have a visa, that your employer will issue one. Or is this not likely?
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Foreign pilot training in the US
Having just done some flight training in the US this is what happens. Firstly the flight school must have approval to train a foreign pilot. They send you a form which has all their numbers/approvals on it. You then go to the closest US consulate and apply for an M-1 visa. This isa student visa and has stringent requirements. The various US government consulates have their own websites. Read through all the stuff very carefully. You then book a visa interview. You need to have done evryhting required on the website before you go. Prepare for a 6 to 8 week wait while they process your visa. At the end of this time they will email you and get you to send your passport for the visa to be put in it....and then you can go. Don't book your flights until you have the visa and they won't "speed things up" if you have a booking. While in the US you must attend 22 hrs per week of which only 7 hours can be supervised private study.....so be prepared before you go. There are only 12 places outside the US you can do the theory exams and if you don't live near one you will have to do them there. But is an intersting place to learn.
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employers dont issue visas, governments do
you can only apply for a visa from outside the country
employers will not look at a CFI who has not got a work visa, and they are very unlikely to help you get one, as it costs them time/money. theres lots of CFIs they can choose from
you can only apply for a visa from outside the country
employers will not look at a CFI who has not got a work visa, and they are very unlikely to help you get one, as it costs them time/money. theres lots of CFIs they can choose from
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mm, a M-1 visa is for people who are not carreer minded or for people who want to take a huge risk. That sucks, because the US have only 2 schools where you can get a J-1, not so many options 
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Originally Posted by Wanna-be
That sucks, because the US have only 2 schools where you can get a J-1, not so many options
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Lets face it Wanna be. As a non American coming to the US to become a helicopter pilot, you are taking a huge risk. However that being said. I don't know of anyone who did the same thing, (and I know quite a few) and are not flying now somewhere in the world.
I came here originally on a M Visa. However, I got married to an American girl after that VISA ended and started working here, been here ever since and still happily married. There are various different types of ways to stay here if you are smart/have enough money. The other way is to get the spoke about J Visa.
I came here originally on a M Visa. However, I got married to an American girl after that VISA ended and started working here, been here ever since and still happily married. There are various different types of ways to stay here if you are smart/have enough money. The other way is to get the spoke about J Visa.
The State Departement will not kill the J1 VISA, just make it impossible to get one. Found on AOPA:
AOPA objects to State Department foreign pilot training rules
U.S. State Department officials just don't understand flight training. And because they don't, they're writing regulations that could put nine flight schools out of business. AOPA is trying to stop that.
The nine flight schools specialize in training foreign students. The State Department wants to change the rules for the Exchange Visitor Program and J-1 visas, and those changes would make it next to impossible for foreign students to complete training that would allow them to get flying jobs in their own countries.
"The State Department blatantly disregarded the devastating economic consequences to flight schools and improperly certified that the proposal would not have a significant impact," said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs. "They didn't even talk to the schools involved."
AOPA filed an objection to the proposed changes, pointing out that unlike other foreign students, flight students have to pass security checks by the Transportation Security Administration. While there have been abuses of the Exchange Visitor Program, AOPA pointed out that none of the problems cited in government reports were related to flight training programs. And because foreign flight students are subjected to so many security checks, the "Department of State's security concerns...are unfounded and lack merit."
The State Department demonstrated its lack of knowledge about flight training by proposing to require that flight students have three years of work experience as pilots.
"That would defeat the purpose of the J-1 Exchange Visitor Program," AOPA said in its filing. "If foreign nationals already had three years of pilot experience, they would not need to come to the United States for flight training because they would more than likely already have pilot jobs in their home countries."
June 8, 2006
AOPA objects to State Department foreign pilot training rules
U.S. State Department officials just don't understand flight training. And because they don't, they're writing regulations that could put nine flight schools out of business. AOPA is trying to stop that.
The nine flight schools specialize in training foreign students. The State Department wants to change the rules for the Exchange Visitor Program and J-1 visas, and those changes would make it next to impossible for foreign students to complete training that would allow them to get flying jobs in their own countries.
"The State Department blatantly disregarded the devastating economic consequences to flight schools and improperly certified that the proposal would not have a significant impact," said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs. "They didn't even talk to the schools involved."
AOPA filed an objection to the proposed changes, pointing out that unlike other foreign students, flight students have to pass security checks by the Transportation Security Administration. While there have been abuses of the Exchange Visitor Program, AOPA pointed out that none of the problems cited in government reports were related to flight training programs. And because foreign flight students are subjected to so many security checks, the "Department of State's security concerns...are unfounded and lack merit."
The State Department demonstrated its lack of knowledge about flight training by proposing to require that flight students have three years of work experience as pilots.
"That would defeat the purpose of the J-1 Exchange Visitor Program," AOPA said in its filing. "If foreign nationals already had three years of pilot experience, they would not need to come to the United States for flight training because they would more than likely already have pilot jobs in their home countries."
June 8, 2006
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wanna-be,
My only suggestion is that whichever route you end up taking for your training, dont get distracted.
I flew in the states and had a fantastic time, worked hard and played hard..... but met some that got distracted and just played hard..... and that didn't pay off career wise for them!
My only suggestion is that whichever route you end up taking for your training, dont get distracted.
I flew in the states and had a fantastic time, worked hard and played hard..... but met some that got distracted and just played hard..... and that didn't pay off career wise for them!
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Hi,
I'm currently in Florida under a J1 visa - this is my experience:
if you're doing anything other than private licence (ie cpl, IR etc), you'll need a J1 - private is done under an M1 visa
these need to be issued by a US school
they will be your SPONSOR for the visa app
once you have that paperwork (they'll need definitie dates from you to complete this
you'll need to apply to the us embassy for an interview - you'll need to demonstrate sufficient funds for the duration
also, you need to register and get approval from the TSA before any training can start
and there's is also another agency you need to register for as a student-exchange - this again is yet another application fee
(embassy, student exchange, security clearance - 3 in total)
Security (TSA) will involve: 1) the course being pre-approved by them
2) background checks on you & your family
3) fingerprinting - this can be done in a police station when you arrive - else you'll pay a lot to get that done in the uk
once this has been approved, then you can start - no training is legally possible without pre-approval
the J1 is a 1-hit affair - once approved & you enter the US, the clock ticks - it's not cumulative based on your actual time in the usa (key if you go home for your atpls - get the ppl done on a M1, dont just jump into the j1) - hence you do the private on M1, go away (proabably) to do your ATPL's & then return on the j1 to finish. J1 will allow you to get payment (if the course includes instructor) - J1 holders can bring wife/kids in on a j2 (can attend schools, can also apply for work permit) - m1 in NO work.
expect every step to have a fee attached. TSA has just changed the rules so they now expect pre-approval (extra application= extra fee) for each step - 1 for ppl, 1 for IR, 1 for CPL
if there is any further details i can help with, let me know & i'll dig out the real details of each step, but hopefully this will give you a basic idea.
si
I'm currently in Florida under a J1 visa - this is my experience:
if you're doing anything other than private licence (ie cpl, IR etc), you'll need a J1 - private is done under an M1 visa
these need to be issued by a US school
they will be your SPONSOR for the visa app
once you have that paperwork (they'll need definitie dates from you to complete this
you'll need to apply to the us embassy for an interview - you'll need to demonstrate sufficient funds for the duration
also, you need to register and get approval from the TSA before any training can start
and there's is also another agency you need to register for as a student-exchange - this again is yet another application fee
(embassy, student exchange, security clearance - 3 in total)
Security (TSA) will involve: 1) the course being pre-approved by them
2) background checks on you & your family
3) fingerprinting - this can be done in a police station when you arrive - else you'll pay a lot to get that done in the uk
once this has been approved, then you can start - no training is legally possible without pre-approval
the J1 is a 1-hit affair - once approved & you enter the US, the clock ticks - it's not cumulative based on your actual time in the usa (key if you go home for your atpls - get the ppl done on a M1, dont just jump into the j1) - hence you do the private on M1, go away (proabably) to do your ATPL's & then return on the j1 to finish. J1 will allow you to get payment (if the course includes instructor) - J1 holders can bring wife/kids in on a j2 (can attend schools, can also apply for work permit) - m1 in NO work.
expect every step to have a fee attached. TSA has just changed the rules so they now expect pre-approval (extra application= extra fee) for each step - 1 for ppl, 1 for IR, 1 for CPL
if there is any further details i can help with, let me know & i'll dig out the real details of each step, but hopefully this will give you a basic idea.
si
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hey,
I think I want to do PPL and IR on M-1 and then decide with that school wether they want to hire me after I completed the training (then they arrange an H-3 visa for me), if not, Ill go to a J-1 school to do CPL CFI and CFII. A helicopter flightschool owner at Hawaii told me that this is a good route, but I emailed to HAI and and asked wether this is possible but they answered this:
If you obtain flight training on an M-1 visa the Department of State rules say that that person is no longer eligible for a J-1 visa and your application could be denied at the US Embassy.
Which school is right? Sometimes I have the idea that schools make things up, so someone will chose for them.
Thanks!!
I think I want to do PPL and IR on M-1 and then decide with that school wether they want to hire me after I completed the training (then they arrange an H-3 visa for me), if not, Ill go to a J-1 school to do CPL CFI and CFII. A helicopter flightschool owner at Hawaii told me that this is a good route, but I emailed to HAI and and asked wether this is possible but they answered this:
If you obtain flight training on an M-1 visa the Department of State rules say that that person is no longer eligible for a J-1 visa and your application could be denied at the US Embassy.
Which school is right? Sometimes I have the idea that schools make things up, so someone will chose for them.
Thanks!!
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Mmm.. HAI do not like people doing the M1 then J1 route. but... i know people who did it and as far as i know it's legal.
a cynical person might say a J1 school would prefer people to be on the J1 visa so they have a clock ticking above their heads and hence they dont make too many waves about how long their training is taking, because they want to get hired by the school. plus if the student wants to transfer to another school, the original J1 school can revoke the J1 visa status
the J1 scheme is a licence to print money for heli schools in the USA. a constant flow of students as there are only two J1 heli schools.
a cynical person might say a J1 school would prefer people to be on the J1 visa so they have a clock ticking above their heads and hence they dont make too many waves about how long their training is taking, because they want to get hired by the school. plus if the student wants to transfer to another school, the original J1 school can revoke the J1 visa status
the J1 scheme is a licence to print money for heli schools in the USA. a constant flow of students as there are only two J1 heli schools.