Crash Video...How not to do a pinnacle takeoff
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Downeast
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 37
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From: UK
Good to see the preferred helicopter of the UN in action.........
1/It is never a good thing to see any helicopter like this.
2/The right crews and maintenance and the Mi-17 is an absolute brilliant helicopter.
Anyone got the AAIB or equivilent report.
Lionco
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: inside
My remark was sarcastic.......I of course hope nobody gets hurt in flying these machines, but a the rate these machines are falling out of the sky you must wonder why this is. And again, why an organisation like the UN keeps giving the contracts to outfits utilizing these machines. It is after all taxpayers’ money paying for UN operations.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 37
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From: UK
Over sensitive on my first point. You are right but the fact is that these machines are, in many cases, not being maintained & crewed to required (ICAO) standards. (Not saying that this was the case in this incident)
pockets being filled by thieving 
You are right but the fact is that these machines are, in many cases, not being maintained & crewed to required (ICAO) standards. (Not saying that this was the case in this incident) pockets being filled by thieving
PPRuNe Enigma
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 427
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From: Scotland
Not funny - there is no need for the last two-thirds of the video after the impact and I stopped watching.
Also, to anyone thinking of following the link, you should be aware that the site has - ahem - inappropriate content. Wouldn't mind a warning next time...
Also, to anyone thinking of following the link, you should be aware that the site has - ahem - inappropriate content. Wouldn't mind a warning next time...
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Grainger,
There is a price to be paid for mistakes in aviation.
The part of the video you object to is not all that "graphic" and does graphically portray part of that cost. How can a video be anything but graphic anyway?
There is a price to be paid for mistakes in aviation.
The part of the video you object to is not all that "graphic" and does graphically portray part of that cost. How can a video be anything but graphic anyway?
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 900
Likes: 26
From: The Wild West... and Oz
This happened some time ago and I believe they were just transporting people, not doing a rescue.
I just watched this with a very experienced Czech Military pilot who flew Mi-17's (the one in the video is a Mi-8 MVT - civil version of Mi-17) and was the Commander of there Special Forces flight.
He commented that the helicopter appeared to be very heavy but a take off was possible. If you can maintain more than a 2m hover then you it is possible to TO. It all came unstuck when the pilot nosed it over too soon and sunk out. The Mi-17 will run out of Nr well before Tq. When this happens you do need to lower collective and "milk" it to recover. Not much room in this case.
If I remember right, they had 23 people onboard, and were at about 12,000 ft +.
Nothing wrong with the Mi-17. Very good design, but like anything, providing that it is flown, and maintained correctly.
"inappropriate content" ? You mean the 4 attractive girls on the right side of the page?
I just watched this with a very experienced Czech Military pilot who flew Mi-17's (the one in the video is a Mi-8 MVT - civil version of Mi-17) and was the Commander of there Special Forces flight.
He commented that the helicopter appeared to be very heavy but a take off was possible. If you can maintain more than a 2m hover then you it is possible to TO. It all came unstuck when the pilot nosed it over too soon and sunk out. The Mi-17 will run out of Nr well before Tq. When this happens you do need to lower collective and "milk" it to recover. Not much room in this case.
If I remember right, they had 23 people onboard, and were at about 12,000 ft +.
Nothing wrong with the Mi-17. Very good design, but like anything, providing that it is flown, and maintained correctly.
"inappropriate content" ? You mean the 4 attractive girls on the right side of the page?
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 291
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From: Chamonix
? No one "wants" to catch anything. Its more an occupational hazard. I dont think you saw the same girls as me though....it seems to know where you live and give you local girls.
Being that Im in HK....youre right. Not such a good sight!
Having flown rescues to a Mil-17 and a Mil-8 crash (totally fatalities 31, survivors 4 from one crash site) I contest your statement that they are 'great' helicopters.
In mitigation I have less than 30mins at the controls of a Czech AF Mil-17, so am willing to listen to others.
To fly, great, powerful, smooth (well, smoother than mine!). TR authority wasnt great hot/high, seemed very sensitive to CofG changes & as witnessed, crashworthiness non-existent.
In the 2 accidents I went to, one hit the ground sideways (TR failure) and the other forwards (CFIT).
Both crumbled like a stack of cards.
According to the Drs, most survived the impact but were crushed as the weight of the gearbox simply folded the walls down and entombed them.
Fine helo alright, until its goes wrong.
The only thing Id like to add about the video is....escape route! They had none and as such overpitched (it would appear, no judgement intended) into an area of certain catastrophy.
As stated, its wasnt a rescue, nor life and death, so why not throw out 2-300kgs?
Sorry. Not impressed at all. It should be a training video on performance.
Been sick as hell all day, so turning back to my bunk. Dont mean to sound grumpy, so dont beat me too much with your replies.
Rgds
PF
Being that Im in HK....youre right. Not such a good sight!
Having flown rescues to a Mil-17 and a Mil-8 crash (totally fatalities 31, survivors 4 from one crash site) I contest your statement that they are 'great' helicopters.
In mitigation I have less than 30mins at the controls of a Czech AF Mil-17, so am willing to listen to others.
To fly, great, powerful, smooth (well, smoother than mine!). TR authority wasnt great hot/high, seemed very sensitive to CofG changes & as witnessed, crashworthiness non-existent.
In the 2 accidents I went to, one hit the ground sideways (TR failure) and the other forwards (CFIT).
Both crumbled like a stack of cards.
According to the Drs, most survived the impact but were crushed as the weight of the gearbox simply folded the walls down and entombed them.
Fine helo alright, until its goes wrong.
The only thing Id like to add about the video is....escape route! They had none and as such overpitched (it would appear, no judgement intended) into an area of certain catastrophy.
As stated, its wasnt a rescue, nor life and death, so why not throw out 2-300kgs?
Sorry. Not impressed at all. It should be a training video on performance.
Been sick as hell all day, so turning back to my bunk. Dont mean to sound grumpy, so dont beat me too much with your replies.
Rgds
PF
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
From: Europe/US
Little Cheese...You get better now, and Mister Grainger.....Get with the Moral Majority..........................The Heli is ancient technology from the Soviet era....expendable...crew and all.....and sucks at High alt!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,957
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From: Australia
sasless
i cannot download video either, seems vou've been knocked off by your local knock shop he he, sheilas look alright but even tho they say they are local they have (in the flavor of the video i assume) a distinctly imported from russia look???
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 272
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From: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
http://www.filecabi.net/t/hotlink7ncuntv6:)sj/hcrashandburn.wmv
Get it direct at
http://www.filecabi.net/t/hotlink7nc...ashandburn.wmv
http://www.filecabi.net/t/hotlink7nc...ashandburn.wmv
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
From: western europe
spotted another mishap on the link provided ..... a lousy start to the day for sure .... 
http://www.filecabi.net/video/yellow...elicopter.html
(Grainger - warning for you as requested
)
http://www.filecabi.net/video/yellow...elicopter.html
(Grainger - warning for you as requested
)
