Bell 417
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with regards to avnx eo, i agree with most of your opinions, however would still suggest to bell that a bell product with a similar layout to the ec-120 with PW power would be fine seller, if you look at the sales of 120's vs 206b's over the last 3 years the numbers will tell the story. if EC puts an extra 100 shp useable into the 120, and, if robinson does go forward with their turbine powered a/c, two big ifs, but things are stirring in both camps, then bell can say goodbye to a market that was there's to lose.
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chopperdr the 210 is the Huey II, and has basically the T53-17 in it. I know that they call it a -703, but that is just a newer version of the 30 year old -17. Bell is considering the PWC PT6-67D for the 210, and that would be an improvement, but alas no GE engine. 
The GE was the best of the bunch, but for some reason GE doesn't want anything to do with the old 205's.
Cheers
Randy_G
The GE was the best of the bunch, but for some reason GE doesn't want anything to do with the old 205's.Cheers
Randy_G
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Don’t get me wrong. I am not excusing Bell for resting on its laurels when it comes to its commercial product line. I just don’t think that translates into Bell Engineering being inherently flawed, and that the whole product line should be trashed.
From what I’ve seen, Bell has failed to continuously improve upon and evolve its existing products. The 412 is in its position today only because of its legacy of continuously improving on a good product. But the basic 412 received certification in ’81, and the last improvement, the EP, came out in ’91. She’s definitely due for an update – but not a replacement in my opinion.
My opinion - for what its worth - in other areas: The 407 a great ship that deserves a new (not tweeked) design from the tail disconnect back, and some of the rotor work done for the 427 could be applied to get even more out of the rotor on the 407. The 430 needs improved avionics and systems, and they should go back and unleash the extra speed that’s there, but couldn’t afford to get certified in the initial design. The little 206B model either needs to come up in technology or down in price if it wants to stay alive. The poor little 427, however, is a tough call. Bell needs a light twin in its line up, but as someone pointed out, it’s a very limited market. Would Bell do better working from the 427? Or would it be better off with a lower cost version of the 430 (something more akin to a 222/230 airframe with a 4 blade system)? Or maybe Bell needs to start from scratch there again? But I tell ya, after the Bell 400, the TwinRanger, and now the 427, Bell doesn’t exactly have a stellar history for putting the puck-in-the-net when it comes to the light twin department.
I still think it’s sad that the great minds in the FTC thought it necessary to prevent Bell from picking up MD’s commercial line (and thereby moving its ownership to Europe – yeah, that was good for the country!) I think the mix of the two company’s technologies would have done the products well – as the mix of MBB and Aerospatiale technology has done Eurocopter well. I’d hate to see the world end up with just Eurocopter, plus a bunch of small niche helicopter companies.
From what I’ve seen, Bell has failed to continuously improve upon and evolve its existing products. The 412 is in its position today only because of its legacy of continuously improving on a good product. But the basic 412 received certification in ’81, and the last improvement, the EP, came out in ’91. She’s definitely due for an update – but not a replacement in my opinion.
My opinion - for what its worth - in other areas: The 407 a great ship that deserves a new (not tweeked) design from the tail disconnect back, and some of the rotor work done for the 427 could be applied to get even more out of the rotor on the 407. The 430 needs improved avionics and systems, and they should go back and unleash the extra speed that’s there, but couldn’t afford to get certified in the initial design. The little 206B model either needs to come up in technology or down in price if it wants to stay alive. The poor little 427, however, is a tough call. Bell needs a light twin in its line up, but as someone pointed out, it’s a very limited market. Would Bell do better working from the 427? Or would it be better off with a lower cost version of the 430 (something more akin to a 222/230 airframe with a 4 blade system)? Or maybe Bell needs to start from scratch there again? But I tell ya, after the Bell 400, the TwinRanger, and now the 427, Bell doesn’t exactly have a stellar history for putting the puck-in-the-net when it comes to the light twin department.
I still think it’s sad that the great minds in the FTC thought it necessary to prevent Bell from picking up MD’s commercial line (and thereby moving its ownership to Europe – yeah, that was good for the country!) I think the mix of the two company’s technologies would have done the products well – as the mix of MBB and Aerospatiale technology has done Eurocopter well. I’d hate to see the world end up with just Eurocopter, plus a bunch of small niche helicopter companies.
Last edited by Avnx EO; 26th Aug 2002 at 23:36.
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the whole ftc / bell / md fiasco is one of the worst things that happened in the business, we can only guess what the 902 and 500 series would have done with bell standing behind the products, needless to say the eurocopter sales figures would be somewhat less than they are.
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As far as I'm aware, the 412 ASAR is being actively "peddled" but to governments, and without civil certification. A bunch of them are already delivered and in service. The ASAR 412-EP was developed with FAA certification in mind, and up until a year-and-a-half ago, there were plans to get the glass cockpit and FADEC engines part of it ceritifed in the basic aircraft. That effort was stopped because the "crystal ball gazers" predicted this big drop off in commercial 412-EP sales. They figured it wasn't worth the investment.
If 412-EP sales are drying up, you sure couldn't tell. Whether that will help the Bell powers to reopen the issue?... maybe?... I sure wish.
You gonna sue them if they go back on their announcement??
If 412-EP sales are drying up, you sure couldn't tell. Whether that will help the Bell powers to reopen the issue?... maybe?... I sure wish.
You gonna sue them if they go back on their announcement??
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Bell 417
I see that Bell have announced the launch of the new 417.
Has anyone got a photos they could post here for interest???
Here's a link to the press release:
http://investor.textron.com/newsroom...leaseid=188782
Has anyone got a photos they could post here for interest???
Here's a link to the press release:
http://investor.textron.com/newsroom...leaseid=188782
I didn't look at the demo ship at the HAI too close, but it looked like a 407 to me. I'd be curious if the type certificate is different.
They swapped the Allison -47 engine for the Honeywell HTS900 (off the top of my head it think it is the same family as the Lycoming LTS-101 that Bell used in their older twins). Modern avionics - along with everyone else in the industry - the Chelton system is available on the 407 now so not much new there.
They still need a light/medium with a flat floor to compete with Eurocopter, something like the 429 except with one big stove instead of two.
malabo
They swapped the Allison -47 engine for the Honeywell HTS900 (off the top of my head it think it is the same family as the Lycoming LTS-101 that Bell used in their older twins). Modern avionics - along with everyone else in the industry - the Chelton system is available on the 407 now so not much new there.
They still need a light/medium with a flat floor to compete with Eurocopter, something like the 429 except with one big stove instead of two.
malabo
Gatvol
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The one at HAI was pretty bare bones although set up for Law Enforcement. They usually have budgets that are designed to make the Aircraft Max Gross with toys.
If the Hot and High issues are seriously addressed with the 417 its going to be a sweet aircraft.
Drop Cruster.....Spray Rig?? its too pretty .........Ha Ha
If the Hot and High issues are seriously addressed with the 417 its going to be a sweet aircraft.
Drop Cruster.....Spray Rig?? its too pretty .........Ha Ha
Ah, if only if it were that easy Kiwi!
Even the 429 lives on compromise for today with a promise of the 'real' or intended version [with a notar like tail] in a few years and that was a relatively clean piece of paper.
Even the 429 lives on compromise for today with a promise of the 'real' or intended version [with a notar like tail] in a few years and that was a relatively clean piece of paper.
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That photo proves one thing: Bell is great at making mock-ups! Contrast that with Eurocopter. They never tell you what's in the works and all of a sudden, poof! there's a brand new design, fully certificated and ready for purchase. Don't get me wrong, I love Bell but I wish they would stop making mockups, warmed-over hueys and questionable flights of fancy like the 609, and get on with the business of designing, certifying and selling modern helicopters.
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More Pictures of the 417
Hi!
Look at hovercontrol.com and then message forum.There is a Tread about the 417 with quite a lot of Pictures including the glass cockpit...Pictures are in very good quality...so go get them...it is a walkaround the 417 from every angle...
Philip
Look at hovercontrol.com and then message forum.There is a Tread about the 417 with quite a lot of Pictures including the glass cockpit...Pictures are in very good quality...so go get them...it is a walkaround the 417 from every angle...
Philip
I hope nobody minds for copying those pics. If admin finds this unappropriate, please delete the pics but keep the link, so others can have a look. Well, here they are:
Big thanks to Scott i guess!
I love that bell jetranger design
Big thanks to Scott i guess!
I love that bell jetranger design