What do employers really want ???
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What do employers really want ???
Hi all,
I'm relativ new to this forum, but here are enough old rotorheads to give some statements.
The background:
I'm a 54 year old commercial Helicopter pilot with more than 16.000 hours.
All flown in Europe mostly in Germany and VFR (you know the weather and what you can do with a helicopter) No need for IFR really.
Due to the current situation in Germany I sent my resume to companies from Hong Kong to Canada including several european countries to.
Experience in : external load, dustin, spraying, mountain, construction, VIP etc..
Most of the companies didn't even reply
.
Some mentioned the missing IFR. Why ? I flew probably more hours in adverse weather conditions and made it to the destination as any of their IFR pilots.
The age ?? I can do further 10 years of helicopter work. (Don't like just to fly from A to B on an old oily trail you can see from 5000') And after these years there is enough time to become an instructor and give the experience to the younger once.
What do you think about that ??
Happy landings
Spencer17
I'm relativ new to this forum, but here are enough old rotorheads to give some statements.
The background:
I'm a 54 year old commercial Helicopter pilot with more than 16.000 hours.
All flown in Europe mostly in Germany and VFR (you know the weather and what you can do with a helicopter) No need for IFR really.
Due to the current situation in Germany I sent my resume to companies from Hong Kong to Canada including several european countries to.
Experience in : external load, dustin, spraying, mountain, construction, VIP etc..
Most of the companies didn't even reply
.Some mentioned the missing IFR. Why ? I flew probably more hours in adverse weather conditions and made it to the destination as any of their IFR pilots.
The age ?? I can do further 10 years of helicopter work. (Don't like just to fly from A to B on an old oily trail you can see from 5000') And after these years there is enough time to become an instructor and give the experience to the younger once.
What do you think about that ??
Happy landings
Spencer17
I can understand your frustration. I was probably one of the recipients of your cv and was involved in the initial filtering process, but not the final decision on whom to hire.
Age may be a consideration - in Hong Kong you can't fly single pilot with pax after age 60. Age, nationality, education, ethnicity, language, culture, etc, are all factors in the decision making process, along with flying experience and qualifications. There's no point hiring someone with a zillion hours who just doesn't fit in with the other company employees, or can't communicate with or relate to the clients.
The biggest factor for me as a potential employer is having personal knowledge of the applicant, or at least being able to talk to someone whose opinion I value who has personal knowledge of the applicant. There are plenty of pilots who are well qualified on paper but are total disasters as employees - I'm sure you have come across many yourself.
A potential employer may also consider you to be over qualified and suspicious of your motivation. "Why does such a well qualified pilot want to work for us? He should be able to do better for himself - what's wrong with him? How long is he going to hang around - is he just after a holiday while he looks for a better job?" Probably grossly unfair, but if you are an unknown quantity this is what the employer may be thinking.
Age may be a consideration - in Hong Kong you can't fly single pilot with pax after age 60. Age, nationality, education, ethnicity, language, culture, etc, are all factors in the decision making process, along with flying experience and qualifications. There's no point hiring someone with a zillion hours who just doesn't fit in with the other company employees, or can't communicate with or relate to the clients.
The biggest factor for me as a potential employer is having personal knowledge of the applicant, or at least being able to talk to someone whose opinion I value who has personal knowledge of the applicant. There are plenty of pilots who are well qualified on paper but are total disasters as employees - I'm sure you have come across many yourself.
A potential employer may also consider you to be over qualified and suspicious of your motivation. "Why does such a well qualified pilot want to work for us? He should be able to do better for himself - what's wrong with him? How long is he going to hang around - is he just after a holiday while he looks for a better job?" Probably grossly unfair, but if you are an unknown quantity this is what the employer may be thinking.
Last edited by Mark Six; 28th Feb 2006 at 02:17.
Employers want a 10,000 hour pilot with type ratings in everything since Igor started the ironworks, an advanced university degree, ability to speak four languages, carry baggage, wash and wax helicopters when not helping the engineer perform maintenance, have worked for only one outfit in your career and left only when the outfit was abolished by new owners, and willing to work whenever, where ever, leave on a moments notice for an undefined time period, have 2000 hours single pilot IFR, 2000 hours precision longline, 2000 hours production longline, an OAS card, USFS Card, be rappel, short haul and aerial ignition qualified with 2000 hours above 7,000 feet and 2000 hours Offshore. Oh, don't be older than the guy screening the CV/Resumes or 30 whichever is the younger!
Anything shy of that, you are unqualified,over qualified, not a team player, job hopper, "known".....but never too old.
You can be sued for saying a guy is too old you know.
How many times have I heard someone say...."if you just had the type rating, we would love to employ you." "Gee, if you just had a xxxxxxxxxx license, we would love to hire you." "Well, if you are willing to live on site and not commute home...." "Why do you want to live there....why don't you move to xxxxxxxxxxx (halfway to the job and that far away from your home)."
How many outfits with the computerized Human Resources computer application routine....will skip over a guy with every type rating but the one they are seeking....ignore 20 years experience....and hire an inexperienced guy with only the one type rating?
They then go for a license validation which can be terminated at will by the host nation whereas the other guy with a full license from the Host nation but not the type rating gets passed over. All they would have to do is add a type rating to the guy's license and he is good for as long as he passes his medical and checkrides.
Just doesn't make sense to me.
Anything shy of that, you are unqualified,over qualified, not a team player, job hopper, "known".....but never too old.
You can be sued for saying a guy is too old you know.
How many times have I heard someone say...."if you just had the type rating, we would love to employ you." "Gee, if you just had a xxxxxxxxxx license, we would love to hire you." "Well, if you are willing to live on site and not commute home...." "Why do you want to live there....why don't you move to xxxxxxxxxxx (halfway to the job and that far away from your home)."
How many outfits with the computerized Human Resources computer application routine....will skip over a guy with every type rating but the one they are seeking....ignore 20 years experience....and hire an inexperienced guy with only the one type rating?
They then go for a license validation which can be terminated at will by the host nation whereas the other guy with a full license from the Host nation but not the type rating gets passed over. All they would have to do is add a type rating to the guy's license and he is good for as long as he passes his medical and checkrides.
Just doesn't make sense to me.
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@Mark Six
I'm not really frustrated. I have my clients in Germany and Austria.
There are two reasons to look after a new challenge:
1. My clients have their own employees and at this time there is not enough work to hire a free lance pilot.
2. I'm just curious to fly in new places, meet new people maybe share my experience with others or learn from others.
There is no doubt that I'm a teamplayer because they always call if there is work.
@SASLess
You are right with most of your statements. I have heart it so offen to be over qualified for the job. That is the major reason to be short of work except during the spraying season.
Spraying vineyards along the Mosel river is one of the most challenging flying.
I remember once we had Paul Schweitzer and his Chief test pilot here in Germany they wanted to see how we work with the 300. We took less spraying fluid aboard and gave them a ride in the vineyards and both said "we never knew that you can do that with our Helicopters".
But never the less I have fixed two jobs for this year already.
Going to Antarctica in April and do some spraying in south America during next fall and winter.
Happy landings
Spencer17
I'm not really frustrated. I have my clients in Germany and Austria.
There are two reasons to look after a new challenge:
1. My clients have their own employees and at this time there is not enough work to hire a free lance pilot.
2. I'm just curious to fly in new places, meet new people maybe share my experience with others or learn from others.
There is no doubt that I'm a teamplayer because they always call if there is work.
@SASLess
You are right with most of your statements. I have heart it so offen to be over qualified for the job. That is the major reason to be short of work except during the spraying season.
Spraying vineyards along the Mosel river is one of the most challenging flying.
I remember once we had Paul Schweitzer and his Chief test pilot here in Germany they wanted to see how we work with the 300. We took less spraying fluid aboard and gave them a ride in the vineyards and both said "we never knew that you can do that with our Helicopters".
But never the less I have fixed two jobs for this year already.
Going to Antarctica in April and do some spraying in south America during next fall and winter.
Happy landings
Spencer17
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Spencer17,
Good question but I suspect the answers are many and varied. Each situation is quite different so there's no magic answer that will satisfy all, or perhaps even many, prospective employers. It's all about context and the reason one attribute might be considered favourable for position a, may in fact be considered undesirable for position b.
For instance, if I were a prospective employer and I receieved your resume (based on the information provided), your skills and experience would seem applicable for firefighting, agri work and the like. However, they wouldn't appear as suitable for say offshore work with one of the larger operators. That's not to say you couldn't carry out your duties as professionally as the next person, but you don't have IFR experience and you're not young enough to mold into the "company ideal".
By the way, from SASless' rather tongue in cheek response, it is clear he has experience aplenty, but appears to be a bit of a gypsy and so I would have reservations in hiring him. Sorry mate...
Cheers,
P68
Good question but I suspect the answers are many and varied. Each situation is quite different so there's no magic answer that will satisfy all, or perhaps even many, prospective employers. It's all about context and the reason one attribute might be considered favourable for position a, may in fact be considered undesirable for position b.
For instance, if I were a prospective employer and I receieved your resume (based on the information provided), your skills and experience would seem applicable for firefighting, agri work and the like. However, they wouldn't appear as suitable for say offshore work with one of the larger operators. That's not to say you couldn't carry out your duties as professionally as the next person, but you don't have IFR experience and you're not young enough to mold into the "company ideal".
By the way, from SASless' rather tongue in cheek response, it is clear he has experience aplenty, but appears to be a bit of a gypsy and so I would have reservations in hiring him. Sorry mate...
Cheers,
P68
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Sadly the beancounters only see as far as tomorrow
I can't imagine any accountant, in any profession, having anything to do with the recruitment of staff who are not accountants!!!
I think it might the ubiquitous Human Resources departments that you are thinking of!
Cheers
Whirls
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@Papa68
I'm really not a gypsy, but as free lance pilot in Germany you have to have more than one client otherwise they (the administration) force you in fixed employment. But that's a political thing.
For my opinion it would be bad if a company would refuse to hire me.
Fact is, they call me to fly for them.
As I stated before I'm looking for jobs because my clients have not enough to fly at this time and two companies I worked for already closed (not because of me).
I'm really not a gypsy, but as free lance pilot in Germany you have to have more than one client otherwise they (the administration) force you in fixed employment. But that's a political thing.
For my opinion it would be bad if a company would refuse to hire me.
Fact is, they call me to fly for them.
As I stated before I'm looking for jobs because my clients have not enough to fly at this time and two companies I worked for already closed (not because of me).
@MarkSix
...who just doesn't fit in with the other company employees, or can't communicate with or relate to the clients.
Will you know after the first interview?
The biggest factor for me as a potential employer is having personal knowledge of the applicant, or at least being able to talk to someone whose opinion I value who has personal knowledge of the applicant.
So, by my papers you want me, but I have been working for small operators in small countries, you don´t know any of those. Do you pay for my airline ticket to see me for an interview?
There are plenty of pilots who are well qualified on paper but are total disasters as employees - I'm sure you have come across many yourself.
True
A potential employer may also consider you to be over qualified and suspicious of your motivation. "Why does such a well qualified pilot want to work for us?
Maybe because you have work that needs to be done, I have the required qualification and I need to pay bills and feed the family.
Whatever happened to that simple concept ?
He should be able to do better for himself - what's wrong with him?Have I understood that correctly ?
Are you telling us you have a crappy outfit and there are better places than yours?
How long is he going to hang around - is he just after a holiday while he looks for a better job?" Probably grossly unfair, but if you are an unknown quantity this is what the employer may be thinking.
[/QUOTE]
A well trained pilot might ask himself " why is this company advertising again? Do they have a high turnover ? Why could that be? Is this a permanent employment or will they just use me to fill in ? Probably unfair as well...but it so happened.
A new employee does not know the ins and outs of your company, so an unknown quantity as well
This is a difficult subject, I know. And there are always two sides...
And...no offense.
Cheers
...who just doesn't fit in with the other company employees, or can't communicate with or relate to the clients.
Will you know after the first interview?
The biggest factor for me as a potential employer is having personal knowledge of the applicant, or at least being able to talk to someone whose opinion I value who has personal knowledge of the applicant.
So, by my papers you want me, but I have been working for small operators in small countries, you don´t know any of those. Do you pay for my airline ticket to see me for an interview?
There are plenty of pilots who are well qualified on paper but are total disasters as employees - I'm sure you have come across many yourself.
True
A potential employer may also consider you to be over qualified and suspicious of your motivation. "Why does such a well qualified pilot want to work for us?
Maybe because you have work that needs to be done, I have the required qualification and I need to pay bills and feed the family.
Whatever happened to that simple concept ?
He should be able to do better for himself - what's wrong with him?Have I understood that correctly ?
Are you telling us you have a crappy outfit and there are better places than yours?
How long is he going to hang around - is he just after a holiday while he looks for a better job?" Probably grossly unfair, but if you are an unknown quantity this is what the employer may be thinking.
[/QUOTE]
A well trained pilot might ask himself " why is this company advertising again? Do they have a high turnover ? Why could that be? Is this a permanent employment or will they just use me to fill in ? Probably unfair as well...but it so happened.
A new employee does not know the ins and outs of your company, so an unknown quantity as well
This is a difficult subject, I know. And there are always two sides...
And...no offense.
Cheers
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Spence, Im in the same situation......only 50 though.......Promises,promises,promises.....Even rostered at new company by pilots and ops staff ......UNTIL (I suspect)the bean counters got hold of application.
How can a guy be verbally told that he has been accepted for a position and that a formal interview is just a formality.
Must be age................or lack of IF rating.
How can a guy be verbally told that he has been accepted for a position and that a formal interview is just a formality.
Must be age................or lack of IF rating.
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I don't see any reason why a 16.000 hours pilot wouldn't be suitable to fly Off-shore. I think by looking at his flying experience he has far greater skill than any 3000+ off-shore pilot.
Just a humble opinion.
Just a humble opinion.
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It's not a matter of stick time. If that pilot has been in the bush for that long, it can be very difficult to fit into a structured environment.
Phil
Phil
