R44 Down on Melbourne Beach
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LTE?
I doubt this was LTE very much. Robinson built the R22 and the R44 around the tail rotor, could be VRS or overpitching but I doubt LTE very much.
If I could ask a silly question what was that pilot doing in a single engine aircraft, over water, beyond auto distance from shore without a float equipt aircraft?
If I could ask a silly question what was that pilot doing in a single engine aircraft, over water, beyond auto distance from shore without a float equipt aircraft?
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If I could ask a silly question what was that pilot doing in a single engine aircraft, over water, beyond auto distance from shore without a float equipt aircraft?
Airwork
Airwork
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If I could ask a silly question what was that pilot doing in a single engine aircraft, over water, beyond auto distance from shore without a float equipt aircraft?
All the same, it must be great to be perfect to be able to stand in judgement of others!
22
All the same, it must be great to be perfect to be able to stand in judgement of others!
22
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Not sure about Aussie, but in New Zealand.....without going into the finer details but you can opeate a "single engine aircraft, over water, beyond auto distance from shore without a float equipt aircraft" aslong as the people on board are WEARING life vests.
So I will be bold enough to say the pilot in video was perfectly legal in how she was operating. (if they had them on).
So I will be bold enough to say the pilot in video was perfectly legal in how she was operating. (if they had them on).
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That's interesting I was not aware of that.
Heliski22 I do not claim to be perfect and I agree that its very convenient to play armchair quarterback when you can sit back and analyze the situation, however in Canada it is illegal to operate and aircraft in that manner. I made the mistake of assuming that regulation was followed elsewhere in the same manner, which I think it should be as even if the passengers have life preservers on they made become disoriented if the aircraft flips over (as helicopters tend to do when they strike the water being so top heavy) and have difficulty egressing from the aircraft.
In addition What is the point of reviewing these video's if not to comment on what caused it and make an effort to learn from someone else mistakes?
Heliski22 I do not claim to be perfect and I agree that its very convenient to play armchair quarterback when you can sit back and analyze the situation, however in Canada it is illegal to operate and aircraft in that manner. I made the mistake of assuming that regulation was followed elsewhere in the same manner, which I think it should be as even if the passengers have life preservers on they made become disoriented if the aircraft flips over (as helicopters tend to do when they strike the water being so top heavy) and have difficulty egressing from the aircraft.
In addition What is the point of reviewing these video's if not to comment on what caused it and make an effort to learn from someone else mistakes?
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What if she simply got disoriented (she was flying very slow, almost hovering, in absence of points of reference) and didn't realize the machine started to yaw a bit. As the yaw gained momentum she was not very quick to give full pedal (many pilots don't have an instinctive reaction to hit the stop under stress) and simply thought she had lost the T/R, hence she shut the throttle. That could be another explaination of the early horn, as well as why the horn took so long to come back (was still sounding when she had resumed straight flight at what seems a good clip of speed).
R/rpm must have dropped a lot because it took the whole descent to restore it. Would simple overpitching result in such a long time with the horn-on if full emergency power was on WHILE so much altitude was being lost (could I add at attitudes that should place decent airflow through the disks?) and speed being re-gained?
As Nick pointed out, the LTE "excuse" adduced in the investigation report makes even less sense (again why the low rpm horn so ealry if it's LTE).
In any case, in my view rotor rpm got pretty close to beyond recovery. Guess, they got a break because of the 44s high rotor mass and the lots of altitude they hade to play with, but this could have been a nasty one. Lucky crew.
Nevertheless, kudos to the girl for keeping her cool and trying a recovery till the end.
Never give up!
R/rpm must have dropped a lot because it took the whole descent to restore it. Would simple overpitching result in such a long time with the horn-on if full emergency power was on WHILE so much altitude was being lost (could I add at attitudes that should place decent airflow through the disks?) and speed being re-gained?
As Nick pointed out, the LTE "excuse" adduced in the investigation report makes even less sense (again why the low rpm horn so ealry if it's LTE).
In any case, in my view rotor rpm got pretty close to beyond recovery. Guess, they got a break because of the 44s high rotor mass and the lots of altitude they hade to play with, but this could have been a nasty one. Lucky crew.
Nevertheless, kudos to the girl for keeping her cool and trying a recovery till the end.
Never give up!
You can download it from here, but you need to get an FLV player off the web to play.
Griffin Helicopters | Video Player
I need to add some code to the page to make it play embedded and don't have time at the moment.
Griffin Helicopters | Video Player
I need to add some code to the page to make it play embedded and don't have time at the moment.
N5296s
The reportis here http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/666073/...600738_001.pdf
In it states.
Wild assumption on my part but I imagine many peoples initial reaction to the turning and falling would be to pushleft pedal and raise the lever, both of which will contribute to an increased power demand and droop the rotor RPM.
GS
The reportis here http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/666073/...600738_001.pdf
In it states.
The activation of the low rotor RPM warning horn after the onset of LTE was probably a function of the combined effects of an initially high or increased collective pitch setting, the possible application by the pilot of an amount of left pedal in response to the right yaw, the violence of the uncommanded yaw and descent, and of the control inputs used to recover the helicopter.
GS
Warning Toxic!
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Not a helicopter pilot, but fixed wing. I notice the helicopter early on snaps into what looks like a sudden 90 degree roll or change of pitch (depends where the camera was pointing, and it seems to be a very mobile one!). Can someone answer how this is possible in a helicopter- changing attitude at that rate? Wouldn't the main rotor disk hit something?
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Rainboe
I think that it's more likely that what you see is a momentary vertical gyro toppling of the camera turret. I can't believe that any helicopter has that rate of roll - let alone a two blade head type.
I notice the helicopter early on snaps into what looks like a sudden 90 degree roll or change of pitch (depends where the camera was pointing, and it seems to be a very mobile one!). Can someone answer how this is possible in a helicopter- changing attitude at that rate? Wouldn't the main rotor disk hit something?
Warning Toxic!
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Yes, it's got to be unreal. A snap toppling of the gyro stabilisation of the camera looks far more realistic. I liked the panting sound effects- at least she didn't sthcream! She's 25% Australian! (advert joke for Fosters Beer in the UK)
Maybe we shouldn't be so hasty to attribute the "apparent" roll to gyro topple of the camera. The aircraft appeared to have little airspeed and clearly a very high rate of descent: perhaps the roll may have been the result of a secondary vortex state condition.
Not the scenario here, but rates of roll of up to 100º per second have been determined for the R22 in extreme low G roll conditions.
TT
Not the scenario here, but rates of roll of up to 100º per second have been determined for the R22 in extreme low G roll conditions.
TT
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Amazing
I found the audio more disturbing than the video.
You could actually hear the RRPM reduce to very slow "draggy swipes"
I was relieved to hear the blades start to spin up again, but not, Im sure as relieved as all onboard.
If this is not already in the Robinson safety course - it should be.
You could actually hear the RRPM reduce to very slow "draggy swipes"
I was relieved to hear the blades start to spin up again, but not, Im sure as relieved as all onboard.
If this is not already in the Robinson safety course - it should be.
Last edited by Heli-phile; 15th Sep 2009 at 00:06.
I found the audio more disturbing than the video.
The camera gyro has obviously tumbled early on, otherwise there is no way it could be pointing the camera at bits of helicopter. But the sudden roll at around 43 S looks like the real thing.
Is LTE recovery (by the book) any different from LTR recovery? I.e. (assuming enough altitude) enter auto-rotation (at least, that is what I have been taught, before anyone jumps in and tell me that they presume that from now on I'll do something completely different)?
n5296s