GOM Now Hiring Europeans?
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well I'm told 500 hours gets you co-jock on a 412 at the moment. That will seem pretty reasonable to any NKOTB - even if you have to live in a swamp - but will the constantly reducing experience requirements, cause any real safety issues long term on the GOM ?
SASless my well informed friend - over to you....
SASless my well informed friend - over to you....
Safety issues in the GOM???
Well now...there is a Tar Baby if ever there was one!
The Bobby Suggs School of Helicopter Management probably has a core belief that says something about "If the FAA will approve Monkeys flying....it will save on personnel costs. If Bobby could have gotten away with having Monkey's flying and only have to buy Banana's in bulk.....he probably would have invested in agricultural real estate in Nicauraga and Haiti.
The oil company minimum standards drive the hiring standards in the oil patch. The Bobby Suggs concept of pilot recruiting in the gutters of the French Quarters has been overtaken by events....dem gutters be empty of pilots ya know....one hurricane too many and the floods washed away all de garbge.
The American helicopter industry faces a crisis...there is a pilot shortage and the industry hasn't caught on yet. They have a turnover rate in the Gulf that runs about 30 percent per year. At some point....the well runs dry....only so many pilots get out of the military in a year...only so many will come back for a second go at the GOM...and after that....seats go empty and working GOM pilots have to workover...go without vacations....and funny enough, attitudes get bad....and.....turnover goes up.
The cure for the problem is in retention...and some creative approaches to training folks in-house. Bristow did that during the heyday of the North Sea and had good success at it. The American helicopter industry has got to change....there is no other option.
Using younger, more in-experienced pilots in two pilot crews makes sense. It provides the new pilot with an experienced mentor who can guide the young one along the path of rightousness until they are fully prepared to go it alone in a single pilot machine.
The Pilot unions and oil companies need to join in that effort....it is in everyone's best interest to do so. Helicopters right now are the biggest killers in the GOM....not a record that I think the industry can ignore or elude. Evolving into larger crew served IFR aircraft will foster better safety and provide a means to bring along a new generation of pilots.
Until we can get past the "old" way of doing business in the American Helicopter industry....I doubt much positive change will occur. The FAA, NTSB, pilot groups and other interested parties are promising to reduce helicopter accidents by 80 percent....this could and should be an intergral part of that process.
Just one guy's view of things.....garnered over about forty years of flying helicopters.
Well now...there is a Tar Baby if ever there was one!
The Bobby Suggs School of Helicopter Management probably has a core belief that says something about "If the FAA will approve Monkeys flying....it will save on personnel costs. If Bobby could have gotten away with having Monkey's flying and only have to buy Banana's in bulk.....he probably would have invested in agricultural real estate in Nicauraga and Haiti.
The oil company minimum standards drive the hiring standards in the oil patch. The Bobby Suggs concept of pilot recruiting in the gutters of the French Quarters has been overtaken by events....dem gutters be empty of pilots ya know....one hurricane too many and the floods washed away all de garbge.
The American helicopter industry faces a crisis...there is a pilot shortage and the industry hasn't caught on yet. They have a turnover rate in the Gulf that runs about 30 percent per year. At some point....the well runs dry....only so many pilots get out of the military in a year...only so many will come back for a second go at the GOM...and after that....seats go empty and working GOM pilots have to workover...go without vacations....and funny enough, attitudes get bad....and.....turnover goes up.
The cure for the problem is in retention...and some creative approaches to training folks in-house. Bristow did that during the heyday of the North Sea and had good success at it. The American helicopter industry has got to change....there is no other option.
Using younger, more in-experienced pilots in two pilot crews makes sense. It provides the new pilot with an experienced mentor who can guide the young one along the path of rightousness until they are fully prepared to go it alone in a single pilot machine.
The Pilot unions and oil companies need to join in that effort....it is in everyone's best interest to do so. Helicopters right now are the biggest killers in the GOM....not a record that I think the industry can ignore or elude. Evolving into larger crew served IFR aircraft will foster better safety and provide a means to bring along a new generation of pilots.
Until we can get past the "old" way of doing business in the American Helicopter industry....I doubt much positive change will occur. The FAA, NTSB, pilot groups and other interested parties are promising to reduce helicopter accidents by 80 percent....this could and should be an intergral part of that process.
Just one guy's view of things.....garnered over about forty years of flying helicopters.
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I thought the shortage of pilots was a myth. Being a newcomer I've heard both sides but perhaps that's a good reason for hiring more europeans and being more flexible in helping out with visas etc?
Is this alleged shortage just in the US by the way?
Is this alleged shortage just in the US by the way?
There's a shortage of EXPERIENCED pilots willing to uproot their families for compensations that are fairly flat across the country.
There's no shortage of 500 hrs pilots ready to work for free, and that's the real problem of the current US helicopter industry.
Unless the Feds step up to the plate establishing minimum requirements for some specialized applications (it's already been done in Europe), we'll see 1000 hrs and then lower starters in activities such as HEMS.
There are several new flight schools pumping out an ever growing number of "flight instructors" with not much time outside the traffic pattern, but most will say it's a catch 52 situation:"cannot build experience if you already ain't got it".
Going back to Europe seems more attractive every day.
There's no shortage of 500 hrs pilots ready to work for free, and that's the real problem of the current US helicopter industry.
Unless the Feds step up to the plate establishing minimum requirements for some specialized applications (it's already been done in Europe), we'll see 1000 hrs and then lower starters in activities such as HEMS.
There are several new flight schools pumping out an ever growing number of "flight instructors" with not much time outside the traffic pattern, but most will say it's a catch 52 situation:"cannot build experience if you already ain't got it".
Going back to Europe seems more attractive every day.
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If you fly here in the US going back to Europe to fly isn't possible at the moment, unless you hold that JAA Licence. But I have been told there are rumours flying around to say that my change next year. Once EASA takes over licencing, there maybe a chance that FAA ATPL licences maybe, recognised in the UK. If that were the case I would consider heading home. Closer to family etc. Let's see....
Darren
Darren
The day the CAA recognizes the FAA license I will stand naked on Trafalgar Square and give the entire Rotorheads membership two weeks to draw a crowd.
Whatever you are drinking has plainly gone to your head!
Whatever you are drinking has plainly gone to your head!
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Uncle Ralphy !! There could be some truth in what Dazza has said - a pal of mine who works in Geneva, has been firmly told that the whole JAA system of exams is to be scrapped lock, stock and barrel ! I will not believe it until it happens, but we're getting a little closer to the future.
So you'd better get prepared for a night in Charing Cross nick ! In the the meantime Darren - start reading mate - you may actually find it enjoyable ! The KOL was twice as hard !
So you'd better get prepared for a night in Charing Cross nick ! In the the meantime Darren - start reading mate - you may actually find it enjoyable ! The KOL was twice as hard !
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I will be standing next to Kissme in Trafalgar Sq!!, I think it would be a fine site to see! we could probably sell tickets!!! Kissme your right about the KOL, may just start reading. Hope your ok, check your emails
Darren
Darren
The CAA give up all 14 exams??? Where is the money to come from that change will cost the Crats?
The money could come from the tickets they sell to people wanting to see you naked, there is a market for everything these days you know Geronimo… 
Hope it’s not too
cold!
Joking aside I would not count on the CAA swapping a FAA ATPL licence for a JAA one until hell freezes over.
Hope it’s not too
cold!Joking aside I would not count on the CAA swapping a FAA ATPL licence for a JAA one until hell freezes over.
Originally Posted by Revolutionary
Tottigol my illiterate friend, you make Joseph Heller turn in his grave.
On a more important subject, I'd be happy to see that change applied all over Europe. As of right now there are still wide differences among most Countries over there.
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PHI's has two problems.
The first is the expansion of their EMS division. Too many GOMers are trying to jump ship and fly the air ambulances. All things being equal, it's better to sleep in your own bed every night than one out in a swamp in southern Louisiana. And if given the choice, most will opt for the former. Reports are that PHI has instituted a "stop-loss" program for the GOM. If true this will inevitably run them afoul of the union if it has not already.
The second problem is that when the union was voted-in back in 2000, fully 50% of PHI's pilots were age 50 or older and only a literal handful were older than 61. So six years down the road we are definitely at "crunch time." The most senior guys will be dropping out in ever increasing numbers in the next five years. This second problem affects not only the GOM division, but EMS too.
So what does PHI do? They must attract experienced and qualified pilots in the first place, and somehow convince enough to stick with the GOM even when given the option of a position within EMS. Back during the first round of union negotiations, I had some conversations with management. I told them of my belief that PHI would eventually be forced to pay GOM pilots a premium over and above what pilots in other sectors get. It was an observation that was neither dismissed out of hand nor even scoffed at. And it may come to pass.
But there is that darned Catch-52, the "spillover effect" if you will. If PHI raises the pay for GOM assignments, then pilots at Air Log will surely (and justifiably) demand the same. Not to mention, pilots in PHI's EMS division will scream and howl in protest. Too, operators around the country will increase their salaries to match PHI (this has always been the case, and there is no reason to think it will cease). And 'round and 'round we go!
Industry-wise, EMS flying has always been thought of as slightly better than other "menial" types of flying such as GOM which is perceived as crude and basic and unchallenging. Whether this is true or not, a paradigm shift needs to occur. As I see it, PHI's only solution is to add a "bonus" of some sort for their GOMers. And it will have to be more than a pittance. There will have to be a real incentive to stay in the GOM, otherwise pilots will bail at the first opportunity- which they're doing now and in fact have done all along. It's just that it hasn't been too much of a problem in the past.
The first is the expansion of their EMS division. Too many GOMers are trying to jump ship and fly the air ambulances. All things being equal, it's better to sleep in your own bed every night than one out in a swamp in southern Louisiana. And if given the choice, most will opt for the former. Reports are that PHI has instituted a "stop-loss" program for the GOM. If true this will inevitably run them afoul of the union if it has not already.
The second problem is that when the union was voted-in back in 2000, fully 50% of PHI's pilots were age 50 or older and only a literal handful were older than 61. So six years down the road we are definitely at "crunch time." The most senior guys will be dropping out in ever increasing numbers in the next five years. This second problem affects not only the GOM division, but EMS too.
So what does PHI do? They must attract experienced and qualified pilots in the first place, and somehow convince enough to stick with the GOM even when given the option of a position within EMS. Back during the first round of union negotiations, I had some conversations with management. I told them of my belief that PHI would eventually be forced to pay GOM pilots a premium over and above what pilots in other sectors get. It was an observation that was neither dismissed out of hand nor even scoffed at. And it may come to pass.
But there is that darned Catch-52, the "spillover effect" if you will. If PHI raises the pay for GOM assignments, then pilots at Air Log will surely (and justifiably) demand the same. Not to mention, pilots in PHI's EMS division will scream and howl in protest. Too, operators around the country will increase their salaries to match PHI (this has always been the case, and there is no reason to think it will cease). And 'round and 'round we go!
Industry-wise, EMS flying has always been thought of as slightly better than other "menial" types of flying such as GOM which is perceived as crude and basic and unchallenging. Whether this is true or not, a paradigm shift needs to occur. As I see it, PHI's only solution is to add a "bonus" of some sort for their GOMers. And it will have to be more than a pittance. There will have to be a real incentive to stay in the GOM, otherwise pilots will bail at the first opportunity- which they're doing now and in fact have done all along. It's just that it hasn't been too much of a problem in the past.
I know some very senior management folks at the three major operators attend this forum and are well aware of what is said here. It would be interesting to hear how they see the state of the American Helicopter Industry to be...particularly regards this "perception of a shortage of pilots" and statements that suggest they are having retention and recruiting problems.
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This makes very interesting reading - particularly those of us about to embark on a new career.
Presumably this will have a knock on effect for lower time pilots at some point but what shape is this likely to take? I hear that internships are a thing of the long distant past - presumably a revival of this is highly unlikely?
What is the shuffle likely to look like? I assume the 200 hour pilots wont be given a job in the GOM, but the replacement pilots have to come from somewhere...
Presumably this will have a knock on effect for lower time pilots at some point but what shape is this likely to take? I hear that internships are a thing of the long distant past - presumably a revival of this is highly unlikely?
What is the shuffle likely to look like? I assume the 200 hour pilots wont be given a job in the GOM, but the replacement pilots have to come from somewhere...
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The big companies all seem to offer very similar packages... high 40K- mid 50K + benefits. Does this sort of money befit the job and does it afford a reasonable quality of life for a family?
Where does one find slightly better renmueration in the US or is it fairly relative to the various costs of living around the states?
Where does one find slightly better renmueration in the US or is it fairly relative to the various costs of living around the states?
...sounds more fixed wing than rotorwing!
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The day the CAA recognizes the FAA license I will stand naked on Trafalgar Square and give the entire Rotorheads membership two weeks to draw a crowd.
SASless, that was a good one, ha ha
. I have difficult to believe that the EASA should recognise the FAA ATP. On the Engineering side EASA have been implemented since September and they will not even recognise an FAA STC for example.... But I still hope of course that the new EASA licensing system should be a more flexible and better system than the JAR (an improved JAR system), but who knows!
SASless, that was a good one, ha ha
. I have difficult to believe that the EASA should recognise the FAA ATP. On the Engineering side EASA have been implemented since September and they will not even recognise an FAA STC for example.... But I still hope of course that the new EASA licensing system should be a more flexible and better system than the JAR (an improved JAR system), but who knows!