The Flashing Blade

Are there any schools in the UK or Europe that do External Load lifting / long-line training courses on the R22/R44/Hu269?
Really want to get in the load lifting side of the industry, can't afford a trip to Canada or the US.
Thanks in advance
FB



Also >>> Slingloading & Longlining Discussions


Heliport

paco

You could try Helicopter Services at Wycombe - 01494 513166. I know they have a 200 foot line there

Phil

MD900 Explorer

Flashing Blade

Try European Helicopter Centre (R22/44) @ sandefjord Airport (Torp)http://www.ehc.no and also Pegasus Flight Training (H269)http://www.fto.no Organisation based in Skien, Norway. Both these schools offer the training because the type of companies the schools feed are external load companies. i.e they do a lot of sling work.

I would have thought it would be cheaper to take a trip to Canada though. Flight training is way cheaper. Example 1 hour in an AS-350 costs roughly 1000CAN$ .In Norway it costs 8700 NOK. Now to those not fluent in monetary exchange it is like saying £350 versus £780. Now that makes a big difference. So therefore the R22/44, H269 would be a damn sight cheaper. But Canada still wins in the pricings in my opinion.

(I may be out on the Canadian charge here, but i know some schools are doing the 206 @ 900 CAN$ and even if you went up to 1500 CAN$ for your hour, it is still way cheaper than Europe.)

I guess it depends upon the machine and how much training you want to do. If you go to Norway, EHC and Pegasus are the only two CAA registered Flight Schools for training (As far as i know) and if i was to go to Canada, then i would either go to Great Slave Helicopters (H269), up near Edmonton or HTSC(R22) down at Carp Airport just outside Ottawa. It all comes down to the quality of training you are looking for?

Good luck in your search.

Regards

MD

paco

I think the Great Slave guys have moved or closed down - at least the training school has. If you're going the Canadian route, then Bighorn Helis at Springbank (near Calgary) will do you - Paul Bergeron is in charge there.

www.canada411.ca is the Canadian telephone directory on line.

Phil

The Flashing Blade

Thanks for the quick replies.

I was looking at Canada too. I was thinking about europe as I have seen plenty of articles/pictures of heli operators in Italy/ France/ Switzerland/ Austria who do external load lifting and wondering where they do they training. Ex-mil?

Another benefit I haven't thought of: I'll get to stock up on Maple syrup.

FB

MD900 Explorer

Paco

You are right, they have moved. Thay used to be up at Villneuve Airport in Edmonton, but seemed to have moved their flight school to Calgary.

FB

http://www.greatslaveheli.com/ is where you will find them. A very reputable school, with a great operational side to them.

Good luck

MD

GoodGrief

Flashing Blade: check your pm

AV8.MY.I

Any ideas who, or where you can get underlsung load training. Preferably in the UK but not essential.

Personal experience of training prefered!

Thanks.

paco

Try Leon Smith at helicopter services in Wycombe - if he is too busy I know he can point you to a couple of people. 01494 513166.
Phil

Upland Goose

PDG Helicopters in Inverness may be able to help.
Without doubt, in UK, nobody does underslung load work on such a scale and with consummate expertise. The nearest thing to "Bush Flying" in Europe!
They will not be cheap but they will be the best you can get in UK and beyond.
Best of luck - it is great skill to master. Often misunderstood and disdained. Those who can do it well have my utmost admiration - and PDG do it very well indeed!!
UG

Heliport

Training threads merged.

Linked topic >>> Slingloading & Longlining Discussions

mini

Excuse my ignorance but what weight of payload can be underslung from a R22? (typically with two up)

spencer17

@ Mini approx -127kg for the R22

Always happy landings
Spencer17

170'

You could contact Steve W. at European Helicopter Academy in Weston (nr Dublin)

They're putting a program together for Sling,Longline and mountain flying.

With the intention creating a utility pilot package. Offering it on 300 or 206

Winnie

You could also try Provincial Helicopters in Manitoba. They have a reasonable experienced staff, and do lots of vertical reference. Train on 206B3's with bubble doors and 100' long lines...

BHenderson

Hi Guys,
There have been quite a few recommendations on this thread for longline training outside the USA but does anybody have any suggestions for inside the USA? Obviously a good reputation and active part 133 would be nice, but I don't know much at all about this sector.

On a separate note, is everyone getting rest over the holidays or is it life as normal?


Thanks
Bobby

hammerhead70

I think this topic is highly over rated! Any pilot who can “hover” can longline or at least he can learn it! Period!
Here are just a few basic things to consider while flying an external load using the “vertical reference” method.

1. Check all your gear, the hook system and your helicopter on the ground!
2. Check your hook system again!!! Check the “manual” and electrical release before every flight!!!
3. Always hook up your longline yourself! Never let anybody else do it for you unless it’s absolutely necessary. By doing this you won’t forget that the line is attached.
4. Check the load and the way it’s rigged before you take off.
5. It’s nice to have a weighing system and an outside torque gauge installed if you fly lots of external loads.
6. Customers have the tendency to always put more weight on the hook than you want and you can easily over-torque the aircraft while looking down instead of on the torque gauge in the critical moment.
7. Don’t drive over or land on your longline…ever!!!
8. Know how fast you can fly with a load and even more important…with an empty hook. The line could come very close to your tail rotor!
9. Know the rules and regulations concerning external load operations.
10. Never over-fly any people or property on the ground…ever!

As far as learning to longline goes:

1. Try a high hover without line attached first. Try to “vertical” up and down over a spot without drifting while looking straight down.

2. Now attach a line! Don’t look at the line but try to remain stationary over a spot. The line will hang there just perfectly in plumb.

3. Don’t try it for more than 30 minutes at first. You will be mentally exhausted very quickly.

4. As soon as you start looking straight down you will most likely start drifting. Now the fun starts because the line will start swinging. The secret is: Don’t focus on the load! Pick a spot about 45° to your side and have the load in your peripheral vision. Once in a while you can take a peek at the load…but only a brief look!

5. If the load is swinging…move the helicopter over the load. You have to be ahead of the game. Sometimes a small pedal input is enough and sometimes you have to move the helicopter with the cyclic. The less you move the cyclic the better. Just take a string with a weight attached and play around…it’s exactly the same principle.

6. If you feel your muscles becoming tense talk to them! Tell them to relax! If you have the “death grip” you are not using the small muscles in your hands for the fine tuning anymore. You are moving the cyclic with your whole arm out of the shoulder now. Big muscles = big cyclic movements = swinging load.

7. The most difficult part is the approach. Be it with a load or just with an empty hook. Usually you’ll end up just “shy” of the target. Now you have to move the load and it will usually start swinging again. For the approach…pick a spot that a bit past the target to avoid coming too short. Also…don’t look down onto the load during the approach. Just glance at it now and then. You will find that the line is following perfectly in plumb. Fly the helicopter over the target and only at the last moment look at the load and the target to compare rate of closure and height of the hook.

8. Remember: A descending load never swings! Means if you come in a bit higher with the load and you are in a slow steady descent towards your target, the load will not start swinging so easily.

9. For judging the height of your load look at the shadow of the load and your surroundings. Trees and small bushes are a good help. Long lining over a flat featureless surface like snow or water is very difficult and should be avoided if possible. If you have to do it…try to find some reference. If you are over water…always use the shoreline as a reference. Many pilots have lost control of the helicopter while long lining in the middle of a large water body.
10. Most important…have patience while long lining. Wise old longline pilots say: “Slow is fast”! You will get faster by doing it anyway.

Have fun!!!

BHenderson

Thanks Hammer Head, that's some great advice, but the vibes I'm getting from a potential employer is that I need some sort of formal training before I'm let loose. Any suggestions?

Fun Police

really, as far as formal training goes, all he wants is someone (you) to absorb some of the cost as far as you learning. if he was fair he'd give you some training and then put you on a job that is suitable to your abilities and inform the client that you are new to longlining and come to an agreement on cost. for the amount of experience and proficiency gained in a few hours of training (which he doesn't want to pay for) it will not make that much difference to the client because you will likely not be able to do any precision longlining anyway.
there is some good advice offered in previous posts, however, as H70 says, "anyone who can hover can longline" is a gross over simplification. if i may say so and this is coming from someone who has >3K hrs of precision seismic longlining from alaska to mexico. not to toot my own horn of course

Backward Blade

Don't know how it is done in the UK or Europe or whether or not there is an actual "certification" for L/L. In Canada it is all done in-house though. And on that note always remember that just cause you can fly a line doesn't mean you have to do the job just because you're company got the job. ALWAYS know you're limitations. If your company says you have to do the job then they should pay the DOC of the helicopter required for you to go out and "play" so to speak for a couple hours. Hell I have hundreds of hours L/L from the production side but if someone wants me to "place" a load I take a good hard look first. If it turns into a game of inches, with fingers in the "bite", depending on the machine I may just turn it down. And I don't feel bad doing it either. And it has never threatened my employment either.

BWB