BBC filming guide & BBC criticised for using ENG helicopters too often (merged)
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That's probably the waste they were whingeing about - hiring a day-only VFR machine 24/7!
Oh, and loving the suggestion we should all get two TR's, two transmissions etc to go with our two engines! More weight! Def no chance of a night kit then!
Hovering AND talking
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I am not aware of the BBC actually leasing a twin as such but they do have a number of operators upon whom they can call. Two of these operators do have night-equipped twin helicopters.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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AlanM
You very helpfully responded to allegations made about a particular helicopter operation. I removed the allegations and responses in an attempt to stop a row brewing - which now now seems to have been resolved off-forum.
You're a very welcome contributor to the forum, with a specialist knowledge which is highly valued.
Heliport
You very helpfully responded to allegations made about a particular helicopter operation. I removed the allegations and responses in an attempt to stop a row brewing - which now now seems to have been resolved off-forum.
You're a very welcome contributor to the forum, with a specialist knowledge which is highly valued.
Heliport
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The big picture.
The smaller quieter heli (GPIXX) has smaller less powerfull lens.
So to get the same closeup as Sky it needs to be at least half the distance from the action increasing noise 4x
On Sunday Mark Stevens, whale rescue coordinator said that he had asked BBC (GPIXX) to move away as it had affected the whales breathing rate!
On numerous occasions throughout Sunday Sky demonstrated their distant position from the whale, going on about how the heli wasn't interfering with the rescue.
The previous day BBC had a twin with long lens available and no complaints reported.
Single engine regulations restricts operation
No floats limits areas to land safely when operating over Thames in single
Low power lens restricts angles and locations to get the shot.
Exclusion zone at the oil fire was 5 miles
To put this in perspective 250 BBC executives are paid over £100k per year.
Creaser
So to get the same closeup as Sky it needs to be at least half the distance from the action increasing noise 4x
On Sunday Mark Stevens, whale rescue coordinator said that he had asked BBC (GPIXX) to move away as it had affected the whales breathing rate!
On numerous occasions throughout Sunday Sky demonstrated their distant position from the whale, going on about how the heli wasn't interfering with the rescue.
The previous day BBC had a twin with long lens available and no complaints reported.
Single engine regulations restricts operation
No floats limits areas to land safely when operating over Thames in single
Low power lens restricts angles and locations to get the shot.
Exclusion zone at the oil fire was 5 miles
To put this in perspective 250 BBC executives are paid over £100k per year.
Creaser
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Oh Creaser, let's not allow the facts to distort your argument! You're wrong on lens, noise, distances and height. A number of times on both Friday and Sat PIXX was letting a twin come underneath. You cannot compare the 83dB of PIXX with the much louder twin - come on!
And what the rescue co-ordinator said was - "if that's yours..." to a BBC reporter. He was pointing at a twin.
See you in the pub.
And what the rescue co-ordinator said was - "if that's yours..." to a BBC reporter. He was pointing at a twin.
See you in the pub.
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The smaller quieter heli (GPIXX) has smaller less powerfull lens.
So to get the same closeup as Sky it needs to be at least half the distance from the action increasing noise 4x
So to get the same closeup as Sky it needs to be at least half the distance from the action increasing noise 4x
On numerous occasions throughout Sunday Sky demonstrated their distant position from the whale, going on about how the heli wasn't interfering with the rescue.
The previous day BBC had a twin with long lens available and no complaints reported.
Single engine regulations restricts operation
No floats limits areas to land safely when operating over Thames in single
No floats limits areas to land safely when operating over Thames in single
Low power lens restricts angles and locations to get the shot.
Intrigued that this is your first post. Wonder what other names you use?
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Understanding the capabilities of the cameras is important for pilots as it does affect how the aircraft is flown/operated.
Some technical facts about the cameras.
R44 is a factory fit camera system (300mm max focal length lens) It can't be changed without re-certification.
The camera on the nose is indeed a safer way to work than hanging out the door. R44 is lower cost than turbine all good stuff! It has a wider angle which is great for cityscapes and landscapes. Its has a 21x zoom where the heavier gimbals are 36, 40 or 42x. It tops out at under 300mm where the others go from 800 to over 1000mm.
Cost of the latest gimbals is 2/3 the cost of a complete R44! and it is twice the weight.
To get the same max close up as the competition, GPIX has to be twice as close with a probable increase in noise at the event that is being filmed.
I'm suggesting that is what happened on Saturday.
Sky viewers were already being treated to show off mega zooms "look how far we are away" shots taken from a mile? away while GPIX was much closer to the river bank.
Mark Stevens said on air (and it has been reported) that he earlier asked the police to move the BBC helicopter away. He said it live on BBC news 24 , I think BBC news would have corrected had he got it wrong?
Here is a pic from GPIX camera in the morning, before they were reportately moved on.http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...alerescue9.jpg
I didn't say GPIX was lower I said it was closerto the action than Sky.
I didn't say that it is illegial for singles not to have floats.
Loitering for 8 hours over the Thames in a single without floats at high tide into the night is not illegal.
Rattle, of course a twin over London with a Ultramedia gimbal will get a better range of angles than a single with a less powerful lens.
There isn't a right or wrong to this discussion as all aircraft were obeying the aviation rules.
The Laws of optics can't be broken either.
One mile stand off distance or two sir?
Creaser
Some technical facts about the cameras.
R44 is a factory fit camera system (300mm max focal length lens) It can't be changed without re-certification.
The camera on the nose is indeed a safer way to work than hanging out the door. R44 is lower cost than turbine all good stuff! It has a wider angle which is great for cityscapes and landscapes. Its has a 21x zoom where the heavier gimbals are 36, 40 or 42x. It tops out at under 300mm where the others go from 800 to over 1000mm.
Cost of the latest gimbals is 2/3 the cost of a complete R44! and it is twice the weight.
To get the same max close up as the competition, GPIX has to be twice as close with a probable increase in noise at the event that is being filmed.
I'm suggesting that is what happened on Saturday.
Sky viewers were already being treated to show off mega zooms "look how far we are away" shots taken from a mile? away while GPIX was much closer to the river bank.
Mark Stevens said on air (and it has been reported) that he earlier asked the police to move the BBC helicopter away. He said it live on BBC news 24 , I think BBC news would have corrected had he got it wrong?
Here is a pic from GPIX camera in the morning, before they were reportately moved on.http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...alerescue9.jpg
I didn't say GPIX was lower I said it was closerto the action than Sky.
I didn't say that it is illegial for singles not to have floats.
Loitering for 8 hours over the Thames in a single without floats at high tide into the night is not illegal.
Rattle, of course a twin over London with a Ultramedia gimbal will get a better range of angles than a single with a less powerful lens.
There isn't a right or wrong to this discussion as all aircraft were obeying the aviation rules.
The Laws of optics can't be broken either.
One mile stand off distance or two sir?
Creaser
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Creaser: "Its has a 21x zoom where the heavier gimbals are 36, 40 or 42x. It tops out at under 300mm where the others go from 800 to over 1000mm."
That gives your game away. You cannot hope to compare a 42X HD mount with the SDs. Unless of course your web address includes the letters "H" and "D".
Bye.
That gives your game away. You cannot hope to compare a 42X HD mount with the SDs. Unless of course your web address includes the letters "H" and "D".
Bye.
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I read this with interest as it is where the debate is going over the SD and HD worlds... Can anybody tell me who operates the Sky helicopter and the type of camera that was competing with the easily "googled" PIXX outfit. No need to tell me about the tech details of the PIXX 44 as it's spelt out online.
Headsethair:
Sling:
Do you mind me asking, what's HD and SD ? And the debate ? And in what way can one not hope to compare the two mounts ?
Thanks.
That gives your game away. You cannot hope to compare a 42X HD mount with the SDs.
..as it is where the debate is going over the SD and HD worlds...
Thanks.
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Robbo Jock: It's all abit long-winded for a forum post. HD is Hi Definition - the coming standard for broadcasting which, like all things electronic, will go through several years of birth pangs and high expense before settling down. Hi Def gives your TV a picture that is much sharper than the SD (Standard Def) which in the UK is 625 lines PAL.
The plot is confused by differing standards adopted around the world - the USA and Australia are two of the territories ahead of UK when it comes to actuall domestic transmission of Hi Def.
In heli mounts, the hi def gyro stabilised come from the likes of Cineflex, Gyron etc - but at a vast cost. The current price for the Cineflex V14 is in excess of US$ 400,000. And that just gives you the mount and camera - you still need a recorder and the live kit (if you're doing live). HD recorders are mega-bucks and HD live links are only just beginning to emerge.
So - cost and WEIGHT. All the HD kit is big and bulky. In the next 18 months there will be a price and weight crash. Anyone buying HD kit before that happens is very foolish.
However, FOX in Manhattan have been running a Cineflex HD on their newscopter for a while. They only "downlink" in SD - but the advantage of HD is the depth of zoom achieveable. SD mounts have 22X - 36X capability. This is effectively doubled using a diopter - so you get 44X - 72X.
The Cineflex HD is a 40X which doubles to 80X.
However, the USA ENG (electronic newsgathering) heli market is facing a crunch - immense downwards pressure on budgets because advertising is deserting television. They have the double-dilemma of being forced to change all their wireless links to digital in the next 2 years - combined with pressure from govt to spread HD.
Now I've bored myself.
Whilst Creaser speaks some truth - it is with forked tongue.
There is one Cineflex HD coming into the UK - it has been bought by Arena. They operate the Skycopter and the short-term rented BBC AS355s. But I would be doubtful that the HD mount would be permanently attached to either - the cost of HD means that Arena will probably need to get the mount working on other contracts. (Arena are a big provider of outside broadcast facilities and are investing heavily in new HD cameras etc.)
However, the march of technology means that inevitably in years to come we will be using lightweight gyro mounts with at least a 100X capability. They will be cheaper than the current kit - and they will fit on every light helicopter.
Which is possibly why I got a call out of the blue 2 days ago from Cineflex offering me a discounted HD mount!
The plot is confused by differing standards adopted around the world - the USA and Australia are two of the territories ahead of UK when it comes to actuall domestic transmission of Hi Def.
In heli mounts, the hi def gyro stabilised come from the likes of Cineflex, Gyron etc - but at a vast cost. The current price for the Cineflex V14 is in excess of US$ 400,000. And that just gives you the mount and camera - you still need a recorder and the live kit (if you're doing live). HD recorders are mega-bucks and HD live links are only just beginning to emerge.
So - cost and WEIGHT. All the HD kit is big and bulky. In the next 18 months there will be a price and weight crash. Anyone buying HD kit before that happens is very foolish.
However, FOX in Manhattan have been running a Cineflex HD on their newscopter for a while. They only "downlink" in SD - but the advantage of HD is the depth of zoom achieveable. SD mounts have 22X - 36X capability. This is effectively doubled using a diopter - so you get 44X - 72X.
The Cineflex HD is a 40X which doubles to 80X.
However, the USA ENG (electronic newsgathering) heli market is facing a crunch - immense downwards pressure on budgets because advertising is deserting television. They have the double-dilemma of being forced to change all their wireless links to digital in the next 2 years - combined with pressure from govt to spread HD.
Now I've bored myself.
Whilst Creaser speaks some truth - it is with forked tongue.
There is one Cineflex HD coming into the UK - it has been bought by Arena. They operate the Skycopter and the short-term rented BBC AS355s. But I would be doubtful that the HD mount would be permanently attached to either - the cost of HD means that Arena will probably need to get the mount working on other contracts. (Arena are a big provider of outside broadcast facilities and are investing heavily in new HD cameras etc.)
However, the march of technology means that inevitably in years to come we will be using lightweight gyro mounts with at least a 100X capability. They will be cheaper than the current kit - and they will fit on every light helicopter.
Which is possibly why I got a call out of the blue 2 days ago from Cineflex offering me a discounted HD mount!
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Those who missed it might find this thread interesting -
BBC Guide for Filming pilots
Heliport
Another little nugget or two lodged in me noggin.
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Originally Posted by headsethair
Creaser: "Its has a 21x zoom where the heavier gimbals are 36, 40 or 42x. It tops out at under 300mm where the others go from 800 to over 1000mm."
That gives your game away. You cannot hope to compare a 42X HD mount with the SDs. Unless of course your web address includes the letters "H" and "D".
Bye.
That gives your game away. You cannot hope to compare a 42X HD mount with the SDs. Unless of course your web address includes the letters "H" and "D".
Bye.
Yes in the states HDs with 42x is being used for SD news (expensive!) which is why I included it in the discussion I guess UM would build you a 42x with SD camera also a reason for mentioning 42x
So HD or SD camera is irrelevant in this dicussion, the discussion is how lower power lenses affect newsgathering which hopefully I've been accurate?
Creaser
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Originally Posted by headsethair
However, the march of technology means that inevitably in years to come we will be using lightweight gyro mounts with at least a 100X capability. They will be cheaper than the current kit - and they will fit on every light helicopter.
Lower costs would also encourage more aerial news operators in the UK?
Raises the question of controlling traffic in the future, how many news helis can be accomidated over say a whale type event in London? Longer lenses would help with the spacing?
Creaser