Poisoned by a Robinson!
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Poisoned by a Robinson!
Apparantely some New R44 Ravens are turning Carbon Monoxide detectors black in flight, even with the Heater off. No apparent fault and Robinson say it is an "acceptable" amount to be breathing in?
It seems to be from the cooling fan ingesting exhaust fumes. That headache may not be from a crap student!
It seems to be from the cooling fan ingesting exhaust fumes. That headache may not be from a crap student!
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For info on the headache, and better detectors, go to:
http://www.avweb.com/articles/codetect/index.html
[This message has been edited by rotormatic (edited 11 May 2001).]
http://www.avweb.com/articles/codetect/index.html
[This message has been edited by rotormatic (edited 11 May 2001).]
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Yup - reckon I got a whiff myself yesterday.
Didn't think much of it at the time, but there was a stink from the heater and headache once back on the ground.
As for "acceptable amount" - I would have thought zero was the only acceptable.
Keep those fresh air vents open, guys !!
[This message has been edited by Grainger (edited 11 May 2001).]
Didn't think much of it at the time, but there was a stink from the heater and headache once back on the ground.
As for "acceptable amount" - I would have thought zero was the only acceptable.
Keep those fresh air vents open, guys !!
[This message has been edited by Grainger (edited 11 May 2001).]
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keep the heat off - keeps the mind sharp! (maybe in more ways than one)
Seriously though, probably the best "training" you can do for this situation is to drive an old Volkswagen - you'll start to get headaches when you don't get enough carbon monoxide!
[This message has been edited by lmlanphere (edited 11 May 2001).]
Seriously though, probably the best "training" you can do for this situation is to drive an old Volkswagen - you'll start to get headaches when you don't get enough carbon monoxide!
[This message has been edited by lmlanphere (edited 11 May 2001).]
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As I had indicated in previous posts, Frank Robinson is not your friend when it comes to admitting fault when something goes wrong.
What argument will he offer if a pilot crashes and they find an excessive amount of CO in his blood?
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The Cat
What argument will he offer if a pilot crashes and they find an excessive amount of CO in his blood?
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The Cat
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Regarding the flow of CO into the R-44 cabin I have a theory. Do I hear a lot of “Oh Not Again” from the readers. Well, I never let that get in my way before. A while back someone posted a question on the rotorheads forum asking why the R44 has a tendency to waddle at high speed. Although I didn’t respond at that time I feel it is necessary to comment since it might relate to the CO problem.
I think it is the shape of the rear of the fuselage that causes a phenomenon known as vortex shedding. This vortex shedding causes a change in the pressure level on alternate sides of the fuselage at a speed directly related to the forward speed and the air density. This alternation in pressure causes the movement of the fuselage from side to side.
Now to the CO problem. How many of you drive a hatch back automobile? Have you ever noticed that when you drive in the rain a great deal of road slop will plate out on your rear window? The theory of this design is that the recirculating air will create a positive pressure on the rear of the car and add to the propulsive force imparted by the drive train. The airflow under the car picks up the crap from your tires (tyres) and it ends up on your rear window. If this is the case on the R 44, this pressure front will consist of not only recirculated air; the air will entrain exhaust gasses. The pressure front and the entrained CO will be forced into the rear of the fuselage where the gasses can be picked up in the cooling system and injected into the cockpit.
Many drivers of effected cars will install an air scoop just at the rear of the car at the hinge line of the hatch. This solves the problem of the dirty rear window. It may also solve the CO problem and the waddle problems on the R 44.
Any counter theories?
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The Cat
I think it is the shape of the rear of the fuselage that causes a phenomenon known as vortex shedding. This vortex shedding causes a change in the pressure level on alternate sides of the fuselage at a speed directly related to the forward speed and the air density. This alternation in pressure causes the movement of the fuselage from side to side.
Now to the CO problem. How many of you drive a hatch back automobile? Have you ever noticed that when you drive in the rain a great deal of road slop will plate out on your rear window? The theory of this design is that the recirculating air will create a positive pressure on the rear of the car and add to the propulsive force imparted by the drive train. The airflow under the car picks up the crap from your tires (tyres) and it ends up on your rear window. If this is the case on the R 44, this pressure front will consist of not only recirculated air; the air will entrain exhaust gasses. The pressure front and the entrained CO will be forced into the rear of the fuselage where the gasses can be picked up in the cooling system and injected into the cockpit.
Many drivers of effected cars will install an air scoop just at the rear of the car at the hinge line of the hatch. This solves the problem of the dirty rear window. It may also solve the CO problem and the waddle problems on the R 44.
Any counter theories?
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The Cat
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To: Vfrpilotpb
Getting FRs attention to a problem is analogous to a farmer getting the attention of a Mule. He has to be struck between the eyes with a Ball (Cricket) Bat.
I can only assume that the FAA will get involved and force him to solve the problem. Right now, he does not see a problem.
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The Cat
Getting FRs attention to a problem is analogous to a farmer getting the attention of a Mule. He has to be struck between the eyes with a Ball (Cricket) Bat.
I can only assume that the FAA will get involved and force him to solve the problem. Right now, he does not see a problem.
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The Cat
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I have seen an R-44 with the fuzzy dice "CO absorption" kit installed. "Baz and Trace" sunstrip, and the XR3i spoiler completed the installation.
Robinson, the Reliant of the air.......
[This message has been edited by Cyclic Hotline (edited 13 May 2001).]
Robinson, the Reliant of the air.......
[This message has been edited by Cyclic Hotline (edited 13 May 2001).]
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Our company got a new r44 ran three weeks ago and True enough the carbon monoxide detector went black in the first fifty hours But after putting a differnt non robinson tester in the cabin the thing stayed clear , is it possible the detectors are faulty?
I think i will stick with the eurocopter all the same.
ciao
I think i will stick with the eurocopter all the same.
ciao
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In the tropics we don't have much call for a heater but we still have plenty of evidence to show that a significant negative pressure area is developed in flight at the rear of the R44. Exhaust emmissions are seen as a corrosive powdery ash on the fan shroud and underside of the tail boom. Lu, I think I raised the point long ago that a negative pressure may be stalling airflow over the vertical stab, thus generating the 'waddle'. Personally I believe an aerodynamic 'Jetranger style' storage area in the back might go a long way to solving more than one problem with the R44. Some of the 'waddle' may also be attributed to the govenor amending deviations in the RPM. This is an annoying habit of the R22's.
Also the aircraft needs a shroud to cover the exhaust muffler from long dry grass. Already we have lost one R44 in NW OZ recently to this problem. If the pilot is not careful in positioning the engine bay the lot erupts in flame in seconds. Surely a deflector or cover is a good idea, provided adequate cooling is accounted for.
Personally, I think the R44 is the 'Daewoo' of the sky....It is cheap, light, flimsy, lacks safe storage area and is quite unsuited to most serious bush or charter work.(but I never complain about the 130kt VNE)
Also the aircraft needs a shroud to cover the exhaust muffler from long dry grass. Already we have lost one R44 in NW OZ recently to this problem. If the pilot is not careful in positioning the engine bay the lot erupts in flame in seconds. Surely a deflector or cover is a good idea, provided adequate cooling is accounted for.
Personally, I think the R44 is the 'Daewoo' of the sky....It is cheap, light, flimsy, lacks safe storage area and is quite unsuited to most serious bush or charter work.(but I never complain about the 130kt VNE)
