Human Resource Departments.....What a Joke!
Thread Starter
Human Resource Departments.....What a Joke!
Heliport,
I apologize in advance for what I am about to do....but this job advert proves the new age Human Resources concept at helicopter companies has lost all touch with reality.
This ad was posted at a US based web site that proclaims itself to be the best helicopter web site in the world.....but falls a wee tad short of that claim. (Miles actually....but it is improving.)
Before you read the ad.....ask yourself these questions.
(1) If I were the recruiter for a major international helicopter operator..."Should I be able to research known data in order to identify potential candidates for very new aircraft types prior to posting an open ad in the media?"
(2) Exactly how many pilots in the world fit the criteria I am posting?
(3) Are there any ways to identify candidates without posting an ad?
The Ad......
Position: Oil Industry Pilot Posted: 12/7/2005
Company :
XXXXXXXX- Global Operations
(p) XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(e) [email]XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Contact Person :
Pilot Recruiter
Job Location :
Outside USA
Job Description:
XXX Helicopter Corporation is the world's largest provider of helicopter services to the global offshore oil and gas industry, with aircraft operating in more than 30 countries around the world. XXX Global Operations is seeking experienced IFR offshore pilots with S92 and/or AB139 experience. Candidates must be willing to travel extensively and work on rotation. Typical rotations are 6 weeks on / 6 weeks off. Candidates may reside at any location globally. XXX offers a competitive compensation and benefits program. Required Competencies: · Cooperative team players capable of dealing with changing deadlines and priorities. · Flexibility with changing requirements regarding work hours/days, location and travel. · Support of continual safety and quality improvement. · Ability to work cooperatively in culturally diverse environments. · Valid passport. · Captains 3000 hrs/1000 Multi. · Co-pilots 1500 Hours/500 Multi. · Current FAA/JAR/ICAO/Canadian ATPL and IFR. · No less then 300 hours offshore experience. · Experience with one or more of the following types: - S92 - AB139 TO APPLY: Visit www.xxxglobal.ca - Careers Link Please note that contact with applicants will only be made based on the demand for additional personnel.
If I were the XXX CEO....I would be asking some very direct questions of my HR Director!
Exactly how many pilots in the world are current on both....the S-92 and AB-139 I ask you? Just how many are current on either for that matter? Think you could come up with a list if you took just a few minutes to research where the aircraft are....and make a few inquiries with people you know in the industry?
XXX HR must have a computer program that has little bitty boxes with aircraft types....and those boxes get an "X" put in them if you are qualified in that particular aircraft. No "X" and your name does not pop out of the computer when a search is done. Thus...no matter your experience....unless the computer pulls your name out of the hat.....you do not get considered.
This is just the most extreme case of that concept being applied I have seen yet.
I would suggest to XXX, they hire a Recruiter....and have him work for the Chief Pilot/Director of Ops.....their results would be better. It is time they got out of the computer Resume business and got back into the "Human" resource business and have pilots hire pilots....engineers hire engineers....and HR types do the paperwork.
Am I being unfair in my dislike for such systems....that are stereotypical of "HR" mafia's in the modern business world?
I think I much prefer that personal touch that used to be the standard in the helicopter industry. Maybe I am just being a dinosaur about this.
I apologize in advance for what I am about to do....but this job advert proves the new age Human Resources concept at helicopter companies has lost all touch with reality.
This ad was posted at a US based web site that proclaims itself to be the best helicopter web site in the world.....but falls a wee tad short of that claim. (Miles actually....but it is improving.)
Before you read the ad.....ask yourself these questions.
(1) If I were the recruiter for a major international helicopter operator..."Should I be able to research known data in order to identify potential candidates for very new aircraft types prior to posting an open ad in the media?"
(2) Exactly how many pilots in the world fit the criteria I am posting?
(3) Are there any ways to identify candidates without posting an ad?
The Ad......
Position: Oil Industry Pilot Posted: 12/7/2005
Company :
XXXXXXXX- Global Operations
(p) XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(e) [email]XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Contact Person :
Pilot Recruiter
Job Location :
Outside USA
Job Description:
XXX Helicopter Corporation is the world's largest provider of helicopter services to the global offshore oil and gas industry, with aircraft operating in more than 30 countries around the world. XXX Global Operations is seeking experienced IFR offshore pilots with S92 and/or AB139 experience. Candidates must be willing to travel extensively and work on rotation. Typical rotations are 6 weeks on / 6 weeks off. Candidates may reside at any location globally. XXX offers a competitive compensation and benefits program. Required Competencies: · Cooperative team players capable of dealing with changing deadlines and priorities. · Flexibility with changing requirements regarding work hours/days, location and travel. · Support of continual safety and quality improvement. · Ability to work cooperatively in culturally diverse environments. · Valid passport. · Captains 3000 hrs/1000 Multi. · Co-pilots 1500 Hours/500 Multi. · Current FAA/JAR/ICAO/Canadian ATPL and IFR. · No less then 300 hours offshore experience. · Experience with one or more of the following types: - S92 - AB139 TO APPLY: Visit www.xxxglobal.ca - Careers Link Please note that contact with applicants will only be made based on the demand for additional personnel.
If I were the XXX CEO....I would be asking some very direct questions of my HR Director!
Exactly how many pilots in the world are current on both....the S-92 and AB-139 I ask you? Just how many are current on either for that matter? Think you could come up with a list if you took just a few minutes to research where the aircraft are....and make a few inquiries with people you know in the industry?
XXX HR must have a computer program that has little bitty boxes with aircraft types....and those boxes get an "X" put in them if you are qualified in that particular aircraft. No "X" and your name does not pop out of the computer when a search is done. Thus...no matter your experience....unless the computer pulls your name out of the hat.....you do not get considered.
This is just the most extreme case of that concept being applied I have seen yet.
I would suggest to XXX, they hire a Recruiter....and have him work for the Chief Pilot/Director of Ops.....their results would be better. It is time they got out of the computer Resume business and got back into the "Human" resource business and have pilots hire pilots....engineers hire engineers....and HR types do the paperwork.
Am I being unfair in my dislike for such systems....that are stereotypical of "HR" mafia's in the modern business world?
I think I much prefer that personal touch that used to be the standard in the helicopter industry. Maybe I am just being a dinosaur about this.
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sasless,
If you're a dinosaur, then all I have to say is 'long live the dinosaurs!!'.
In my experience, most HR departments seem to have no idea of what's needed of a helicopter pilot and know little about the industry in which they work. Oh for the good old days of one or two individuals in helicopter companies who were probably themselves pilots or engineers at some time and knew the inndustry and many of the people in it. It's like the wording there about needing 300 hours offshore experience; if a big corporation like XXX can't give a copilot 300 hours where do they think he's going to get it? Take the example of a pilot who leaves the military with 2,000 hours, gets his ATPL(H), joins a police/EMS outfit and gets another 1,000 hours there, possibly including single-pilot IFR and night operations to elevated helipads and tight landing sites, does it really matter if he doesn't have 300 hours offshore? Yet, presumably these HR departments would merely look at such an application and if the box '300 hours offshore' were not ticked, would reject the guy out of hand.
If you're a dinosaur, then all I have to say is 'long live the dinosaurs!!'.
In my experience, most HR departments seem to have no idea of what's needed of a helicopter pilot and know little about the industry in which they work. Oh for the good old days of one or two individuals in helicopter companies who were probably themselves pilots or engineers at some time and knew the inndustry and many of the people in it. It's like the wording there about needing 300 hours offshore experience; if a big corporation like XXX can't give a copilot 300 hours where do they think he's going to get it? Take the example of a pilot who leaves the military with 2,000 hours, gets his ATPL(H), joins a police/EMS outfit and gets another 1,000 hours there, possibly including single-pilot IFR and night operations to elevated helipads and tight landing sites, does it really matter if he doesn't have 300 hours offshore? Yet, presumably these HR departments would merely look at such an application and if the box '300 hours offshore' were not ticked, would reject the guy out of hand.
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That's quite typical of HR departments. I'm in the IT world and have seen much the same thing. When the Java programming language was only a couple years old, I regularly saw postion adverts for people with 5 years of Java experience.
The HR people are asking for the stars. They'll end up settling for the moon instead when they start looking at the resumes that come in...
The HR people are asking for the stars. They'll end up settling for the moon instead when they start looking at the resumes that come in...
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Perhaps thay already have someone in mind with those qualifications and want to ensure that only they get employed. It may be that they are trying to immigrate somebody and have to place the ad for a certain time to allow other people to apply. Of course, only the one they want will get the job! I once saw an ad that required 300 hours in Alberta - I mean, Tundra is Tundra!
Phil
Phil
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Mmmmm....
Of course there are those of us experienced in the ways of the industry might think that the ad was an attempt to hire crews already trained by another operator (at great expense!) over to their organisation and thus save themselves the great expense of typerating them ??????
No that couldn't be the case ......... could it?
Of course there are those of us experienced in the ways of the industry might think that the ad was an attempt to hire crews already trained by another operator (at great expense!) over to their organisation and thus save themselves the great expense of typerating them ??????
No that couldn't be the case ......... could it?
Cool as a moosp
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I particularly like the "Required competencies" list. Full of HR stuff but no mention of a competency to, for instance, "Fly our helicopters safely and efficiently and do the job."
I know an airline not a million miles from here that has a pig in a snake group of problem pilots that is slowly working their way through the system. The problem was that for around two years the personel department took control of recruiting and excluded pilot input to the process. (Yes really...). There are some very interesting characters in that group.
Pilots should recruit pilots. OK, give them a couple of weeks of an interviewing skills course to ensure they know what questions are legal in your country. Include a personel person on the interview board who can have valuable input. But the final veto on who should fly your aeroplanes should be down to another pilot.
I know an airline not a million miles from here that has a pig in a snake group of problem pilots that is slowly working their way through the system. The problem was that for around two years the personel department took control of recruiting and excluded pilot input to the process. (Yes really...). There are some very interesting characters in that group.
Pilots should recruit pilots. OK, give them a couple of weeks of an interviewing skills course to ensure they know what questions are legal in your country. Include a personel person on the interview board who can have valuable input. But the final veto on who should fly your aeroplanes should be down to another pilot.
Thread Starter
Spin,
You miss the point dear boy...If one is smart enough to do as you say....would one not be smart enough to figure out exactly which pilot(s) he wanted in that the population under consideration is not exactly "huge".
If you own these two types of aircraft...both exceedingly new to the market...thus very few operators have them. The eligible candidates would be very few in number.
Why not get off your HR office chairborne arse....and seek these folks out individually and "Recruit" them? Just like it was done in the "old" days.
Take a wander down to the crew room...seek out one of your own 92 and/or 139 pilots and find out who he would recommend from his training courses at the factory.
With the industry history of putting senior long tenure pilots into new equipment....just how many of the "candidate pool" do you think you could lure away to become a newbie pilot with your company?
Better yet...why would you? Here I sit in the crew room....and I see such an ad....but I am not a 92 or 139 pilot for the firm....but think I might have a chance in a few years if I hang on and do a good job. Then....I read this ad looking for guys from outside the firm.
Smooth move on the part of HR I would say....works wonders for the hired staff's morale.
As I said in the opening post....if I were the Boss Fellah of XXX I would be having some very direct questions for my HR Manager (probably as he went out the door with a cardboard box in hand containing his desk stuff!)
Nope.....HR is an evil...evil....evil...concept that is going to ruin good companies unless the Mandarins get a grip on it.
You miss the point dear boy...If one is smart enough to do as you say....would one not be smart enough to figure out exactly which pilot(s) he wanted in that the population under consideration is not exactly "huge".
If you own these two types of aircraft...both exceedingly new to the market...thus very few operators have them. The eligible candidates would be very few in number.
Why not get off your HR office chairborne arse....and seek these folks out individually and "Recruit" them? Just like it was done in the "old" days.
Take a wander down to the crew room...seek out one of your own 92 and/or 139 pilots and find out who he would recommend from his training courses at the factory.
With the industry history of putting senior long tenure pilots into new equipment....just how many of the "candidate pool" do you think you could lure away to become a newbie pilot with your company?
Better yet...why would you? Here I sit in the crew room....and I see such an ad....but I am not a 92 or 139 pilot for the firm....but think I might have a chance in a few years if I hang on and do a good job. Then....I read this ad looking for guys from outside the firm.
Smooth move on the part of HR I would say....works wonders for the hired staff's morale.
As I said in the opening post....if I were the Boss Fellah of XXX I would be having some very direct questions for my HR Manager (probably as he went out the door with a cardboard box in hand containing his desk stuff!)
Nope.....HR is an evil...evil....evil...concept that is going to ruin good companies unless the Mandarins get a grip on it.
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SASless ...
Yup, that would be the way to do it .... except I have seen so often that before pilots from the home organisation are upgraded an ad such this is used as a fishing expedition to see if can be done cheaper.
In the case of the S92/A139 it might be more difficult due to the newness of the types .... and yes I agree that kind of move on behalf of management does work wonders for morale!
I guess it is just the way management see us .... as a rescource to be used (and if necessary abused)... and if they can steal that resource from another operator thay will try!
Cheers
Yup, that would be the way to do it .... except I have seen so often that before pilots from the home organisation are upgraded an ad such this is used as a fishing expedition to see if can be done cheaper.
In the case of the S92/A139 it might be more difficult due to the newness of the types .... and yes I agree that kind of move on behalf of management does work wonders for morale!
I guess it is just the way management see us .... as a rescource to be used (and if necessary abused)... and if they can steal that resource from another operator thay will try!
Cheers
