creative accounting
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creative accounting
This is the first time I've posted a new topic,so bare with my spelling mistakes.
Recently in the last few months I have encountered fellow pilots who have said where they had been flying and what they been flying and in which country,and know that from other sources that this has not been the case,and that creative inputs into the old log book must have gone on.This as it seems a loop hole to go out to a non jar country back and beyond already typed on the aircraft and six months later return with how many hours !!
Go to the job interview say what you like or what they want to hear,and bob's your uncle have job,with no real check or even able to check exactly what's gone on.
It just seems as long as you have got the bottle and a large mouth people actually believe you ?
thats fluffy5 finished with his depressed rant,any one else feel free.
Recently in the last few months I have encountered fellow pilots who have said where they had been flying and what they been flying and in which country,and know that from other sources that this has not been the case,and that creative inputs into the old log book must have gone on.This as it seems a loop hole to go out to a non jar country back and beyond already typed on the aircraft and six months later return with how many hours !!
Go to the job interview say what you like or what they want to hear,and bob's your uncle have job,with no real check or even able to check exactly what's gone on.
It just seems as long as you have got the bottle and a large mouth people actually believe you ?
thats fluffy5 finished with his depressed rant,any one else feel free.
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The price of failure is steep. Caught with such an integrity fault, the fellow's word is not worth much, is it? Grounds for dismissal, and sometimes FAA wipes the floor with the fellow, if the application contained the "errors".
Fluffy
Couldn't agree more with the sentiment Nick expressed.
Apart from trying to get work (which is daft in the first place), why lie about your hours, experience is not ability and the price of hours fraud can be high.
Normally these guys just think they are as 'good' as someone with the 'non fraudulent' same hours.
I've never lied about my hours, I am more experienced than some and a lot less experienced than others, so what if you can, you can and if you can't, you can't logbook lies only prove you can't be trusted.
V.
Couldn't agree more with the sentiment Nick expressed.
Apart from trying to get work (which is daft in the first place), why lie about your hours, experience is not ability and the price of hours fraud can be high.
Normally these guys just think they are as 'good' as someone with the 'non fraudulent' same hours.
I've never lied about my hours, I am more experienced than some and a lot less experienced than others, so what if you can, you can and if you can't, you can't logbook lies only prove you can't be trusted.
V.
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Many years ago, I was being checked out to fly a Harvard T-6 in Texas by a youngish pilot who worked as a crop-duster (fixed-wing). In conversation about hours needed to get insurance for crop-dusting, I asked him how he built enough hours to get his first job.
"Sweeping the hangar, doing odd jobs for some hours. The rest was P-51 time."
P-51 time! I was impressed. How did he get that?
It was only his rather odd grin as he repeated very slowly "P-51 time" which made me realise he meant a model manufactured by Parker, not by North American!
"D'you mean you errr .......?"
"Yeah, no money, no other way."
Dangerous game to play - with potentially a much higher price to pay for dishonesty than anything the authorities could do.
"Sweeping the hangar, doing odd jobs for some hours. The rest was P-51 time."
P-51 time! I was impressed. How did he get that?
It was only his rather odd grin as he repeated very slowly "P-51 time" which made me realise he meant a model manufactured by Parker, not by North American!
"D'you mean you errr .......?"
"Yeah, no money, no other way."
Dangerous game to play - with potentially a much higher price to pay for dishonesty than anything the authorities could do.
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The minimum hours were a requirement of the employer's insurance policy not his own but yes, if there was an accident and the truth emerged, it's likely the employer would have had problems claiming under the policy. (It would depend upon the terms of the policy.)
I'm not sure about 'more to the point.' The price I meant was the ultimate price an inexperienced pilot might end up paying if he deceives someone into allowing him to do a job which really does require actual experience in order to stay alive. Some might think crop-dusting falls into that category.
I'm not sure about 'more to the point.' The price I meant was the ultimate price an inexperienced pilot might end up paying if he deceives someone into allowing him to do a job which really does require actual experience in order to stay alive. Some might think crop-dusting falls into that category.
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Logbook - What logbook?
One of the saddest things about the system here in Brazil is that there are no pilots logbooks any more.
Apparently the DAC HQ had a fire some years ago. The pilot records were burnt so they just decided it was too difficult.
Nobody trusted the logbooks to be accurate so they switched to a system whereby your employer sends returns to the DAC each month who keep the info on a central computer. So now of course they are accurate? When you leave one company for another you can get a printout of what the employer says you did.
Sad, no matter what lies found there way into a logbook ultimately they were auditable. You could check a logbook and establish what had been flown in the last week,month or year. How many types, how much IF. Apart from that it was a diary of your life's work.
I know that at least one guy in the NSea lost his job for sharp pencilling so what a pity the guys here lost faith in the good old pen and paper log.
G
Apparently the DAC HQ had a fire some years ago. The pilot records were burnt so they just decided it was too difficult.
Nobody trusted the logbooks to be accurate so they switched to a system whereby your employer sends returns to the DAC each month who keep the info on a central computer. So now of course they are accurate? When you leave one company for another you can get a printout of what the employer says you did.
Sad, no matter what lies found there way into a logbook ultimately they were auditable. You could check a logbook and establish what had been flown in the last week,month or year. How many types, how much IF. Apart from that it was a diary of your life's work.
I know that at least one guy in the NSea lost his job for sharp pencilling so what a pity the guys here lost faith in the good old pen and paper log.
G
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Thanks for the information it seems not just in the jar/faa or other international countries are implementing some cross checking in that state.But what about between states and private flying hours of experience.
thankyou for responding maybe the caa should turn that way on computerised log books on proffesional pilots.
thankyou for responding maybe the caa should turn that way on computerised log books on proffesional pilots.
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Hours
If in the event of an accident, which requried an in depth investigation, and it was found that the hours recorded within a log book were false then the insurance would be invalid. This would have huge repercussions for all involved including the pilot concerned and the employer. With the new 'sue / counter sue' everyone and everybody policy the eventual pay out would have to be from the pilot even if it was not his fault in the accident / incident and these people do not stop at money they will take everything.
The insurance issues are opening up a massive can of worms at the moment and play a huge role in deciding now whether pilots are empoyed or freelance - especially if the freelance pilots operate their own company such as 'freelance helicopter pilot ltd'. Apparently (not first hand) but as an employee of your own ltd company you must have employers liability insurance and beacuse of the problems identified above with the sue / counter sue policy this is becoming more and more difficult the last quote I heard for a freelance pilot for employers liability was in excess of £20,000.00 which would put a stop to most of our ideas of becoming regular working freelance pilots.
I could be entirely wrong however someone I know very well has just had this thrown at him. All of you freelance guys out there, it is really worth checking on your insurance criteria as I am quite sure this is something which is going to become a real headache for those who operate 'freelance helicopter pilot ltd.'
The insurance issues are opening up a massive can of worms at the moment and play a huge role in deciding now whether pilots are empoyed or freelance - especially if the freelance pilots operate their own company such as 'freelance helicopter pilot ltd'. Apparently (not first hand) but as an employee of your own ltd company you must have employers liability insurance and beacuse of the problems identified above with the sue / counter sue policy this is becoming more and more difficult the last quote I heard for a freelance pilot for employers liability was in excess of £20,000.00 which would put a stop to most of our ideas of becoming regular working freelance pilots.
I could be entirely wrong however someone I know very well has just had this thrown at him. All of you freelance guys out there, it is really worth checking on your insurance criteria as I am quite sure this is something which is going to become a real headache for those who operate 'freelance helicopter pilot ltd.'
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Sole Trader Solution
As one who has spent most of the last 24 years freelancing my suggestion to those contemplating a career change is take the Sole Trader approach. Get yourself registered with the Inland Revenue and the VAT people as self employed then you don`t need Employers Liability Insurance.
The IR can be a bit sniffy at times but if you do it right you should be OK. In my experience the problems mainly come from the company accounts department at your temporary workplace. The IR have a habit of putting the frightners on companies about the use of Freelancers - "we will come back and haunt you and make your life miserable with frequent tax audits if dare take anybody who is not on PAYE". Those with something to hide will want to freeze you out but when they are seriously short they will sell their own mothers for an extra driver. Well, the Chief Pilot would sell the accountant`s mother anyway.
Where there`s a will there`s a way.
G
The IR can be a bit sniffy at times but if you do it right you should be OK. In my experience the problems mainly come from the company accounts department at your temporary workplace. The IR have a habit of putting the frightners on companies about the use of Freelancers - "we will come back and haunt you and make your life miserable with frequent tax audits if dare take anybody who is not on PAYE". Those with something to hide will want to freeze you out but when they are seriously short they will sell their own mothers for an extra driver. Well, the Chief Pilot would sell the accountant`s mother anyway.
Where there`s a will there`s a way.
G
