UK Coastguard SAR - Bristow out??
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cornwall
Age: 75
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TUPE
As one who has appeared in the high court as a result of a failed TUPE action in 1995 ( as UK company manager - we lost the case but won on appeal) I can add that from memory the judges ruling hinged on the fact that helicopters are not brooms and brushes. The fact that we supplied a different product (S76B) compared with the encumbant (S76A) meant that, in the appeal judge's opinion the business entity had not been transferred. It was deemed to be a different contract not the same contract transferred.
The pain and agony caused (unnecessarily) by the previous contractor by deeming that their employees had been transferred meant that:
a. we could not employ them, and
b. they could not get unemployment benefit because the social services maintained that they were still employed.
I shudder every time I hear that dreaded acronym.
G
The pain and agony caused (unnecessarily) by the previous contractor by deeming that their employees had been transferred meant that:
a. we could not employ them, and
b. they could not get unemployment benefit because the social services maintained that they were still employed.
I shudder every time I hear that dreaded acronym.
G
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need a legal opinion on T.U.P.E. If you google T.U.P.E. you will find the relevenat U.K. /E.U. law regarding T.U.P.E. and my read of it suggets that it would apply.
The laws have changed a bit in recent years... certainly in 2003... and I think they are being looked at again.
The laws have changed a bit in recent years... certainly in 2003... and I think they are being looked at again.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So the MCA have signed a new contract that will, no doubt, protect their interests/responsibilities in the UK. What happened then, to the big Harmonisation project that was supposed to bring together the military and civil SAR communities to provide a coherant UK-wide organised structure to helicopter SAR? My guess is that the Military Sabre(SAR) project has fallen so far behind that the MCA cannot wait to see what the military are going to do. So, now the Mil SKs battle on and there's even less pressure to get them replaced quickly. Good luck you Mil guys.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sadland
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mallardpi
SABR(SAR) is gone. It was replaced by SAR(H) some time ago.
SAR(H) is still the joint (harmonised) project aimed at the future of UK SAR. The first implementation of SAR(H) will be in 2012; the size of the project not allowing earlier implementation. This timescale lead to the requirement for an ‘interim’ contract for the MCA locations as the original contract completes in 2007. It is the interim contract which is being discussed here, however some may view the bids as feelers for the 2012 contract.
Whooper5
SABR(SAR) is gone. It was replaced by SAR(H) some time ago.
SAR(H) is still the joint (harmonised) project aimed at the future of UK SAR. The first implementation of SAR(H) will be in 2012; the size of the project not allowing earlier implementation. This timescale lead to the requirement for an ‘interim’ contract for the MCA locations as the original contract completes in 2007. It is the interim contract which is being discussed here, however some may view the bids as feelers for the 2012 contract.
Whooper5
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whooper 5
Thanks for the update. Good to see that the SKs might get replaced soon, 2017 was far too late, but I guess the yellow Sk boys and girls will not be holding their breath.
Harmonisation is the way ahead. The UK needs a good strategic repsonse to SAR (Mil and Civvy). Lets hope those involved are given the tools to do a most important job properly and see it through to a logical conclusion, whatever that happens to be.
Thanks for the update. Good to see that the SKs might get replaced soon, 2017 was far too late, but I guess the yellow Sk boys and girls will not be holding their breath.
Harmonisation is the way ahead. The UK needs a good strategic repsonse to SAR (Mil and Civvy). Lets hope those involved are given the tools to do a most important job properly and see it through to a logical conclusion, whatever that happens to be.
Dear Mr CHC, when you eventually take over all UK SAR can I have a job at Chivenor please?
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shame on BHL management for being so complacent, much like the Pay and conditions of employment. Pathetic and feeble response in the press about the S92 being unproven.
Still with CHC being the 'preferred' choice and the pay BHL talks going so well, a poor pension scheme and apparently some driftwood floating around HQ. Has anyone out there got the email address of the CHC UK HR department?? Best all those wanting to get into UK SAR(Civ) or those already in it start posting their CV's.
Still with CHC being the 'preferred' choice and the pay BHL talks going so well, a poor pension scheme and apparently some driftwood floating around HQ. Has anyone out there got the email address of the CHC UK HR department?? Best all those wanting to get into UK SAR(Civ) or those already in it start posting their CV's.
Bristow's commercial department seem far too focused on rubbishing the S92 and are perhaps losing sight of their real task - that is offering the clients whatever helicopter they want.
C'mon Nick McD et al, it's time to park up the "anti S92" roadshow. You're now hurting the Company.
C'mon Nick McD et al, it's time to park up the "anti S92" roadshow. You're now hurting the Company.
Coastguard crews get job protection
Hans J Marter
9 December, 2005
THE MARITIME & Coastguard Agency is expected to announce next week who will win the contract to operate the sea search and rescue service in the northern isles.
There was an outcry last month when it emerged that after 22 years Bristow Helicopters is might lose the service to the Canadian company CHC Helicopter which has a base at Aberdeen airport.
If they do lose the contract, northern isles MP Alistair Carmichael received a guarantee from the MCA yesterday (Thursday) that Bristow employees will be able to transfer to CHC under TUPE regulations.
Mr Carmichael held an urgent meeting with the MCA's chief executive Captain Steven Bligh to express his constituents' concern over the implications of the change.
The meeting was originally scheduled for next Tuesday but had to be hastily rearranged after it emerged that the MCA was planning to make its final decision public on that date.
Mr Carmichael said: "I have been assured that anyone currently employed by Bristows at Sumburgh will be able to transfer to the new operator under TUPE regulations, with their terms and conditions guaranteed.
"I hope that this undertaking from the MCA will alleviate some of the very reasonable and understandable concerns that have been expressed about the implications of any change."
He also pressed the case for an independent, professional evaluation of the new Sikorsky S-92, which is the aircraft CHC propose to use.
"The MCA is of the view that although this has not been undertaken there is sufficient evidence from the use of these helicopters in Canada and Norway to make a full scale assessment unnecessary.
"I am no expert on helicopters and shall need to speak again with those in the profession who may be able to advise me," he said.
A spokesman for the MCA made no comment other than that Mr Carmichael has received the assurance he had sought.
The new five year contract will come into force in July next year.
Hans J Marter
9 December, 2005
THE MARITIME & Coastguard Agency is expected to announce next week who will win the contract to operate the sea search and rescue service in the northern isles.
There was an outcry last month when it emerged that after 22 years Bristow Helicopters is might lose the service to the Canadian company CHC Helicopter which has a base at Aberdeen airport.
If they do lose the contract, northern isles MP Alistair Carmichael received a guarantee from the MCA yesterday (Thursday) that Bristow employees will be able to transfer to CHC under TUPE regulations.
Mr Carmichael held an urgent meeting with the MCA's chief executive Captain Steven Bligh to express his constituents' concern over the implications of the change.
The meeting was originally scheduled for next Tuesday but had to be hastily rearranged after it emerged that the MCA was planning to make its final decision public on that date.
Mr Carmichael said: "I have been assured that anyone currently employed by Bristows at Sumburgh will be able to transfer to the new operator under TUPE regulations, with their terms and conditions guaranteed.
"I hope that this undertaking from the MCA will alleviate some of the very reasonable and understandable concerns that have been expressed about the implications of any change."
He also pressed the case for an independent, professional evaluation of the new Sikorsky S-92, which is the aircraft CHC propose to use.
"The MCA is of the view that although this has not been undertaken there is sufficient evidence from the use of these helicopters in Canada and Norway to make a full scale assessment unnecessary.
"I am no expert on helicopters and shall need to speak again with those in the profession who may be able to advise me," he said.
A spokesman for the MCA made no comment other than that Mr Carmichael has received the assurance he had sought.
The new five year contract will come into force in July next year.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nowhere Special
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And from the Press and Journal....
JOBS PROMISE FOR HELICOPTER RESCUE CREWS
09:00 - 09 December 2005
Coastguard search-and-rescue helicopter crews at Sumburgh and Stornoway were last night promised they will keep their jobs when a new company takes over running the service.
The pledge to keep on staff was given yesterday by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency's chief captain, Stephen Bligh, at a meeting in the Commons with Orkney and Shetland Lib Dem MP Alistair Carmichael.
An announcement that CHC (Scotia) is to take over the role from Bristow Helicopters for the next five years is expected on Tuesday.
CHC, which plans to replace Bristow's ageing Sikorski 61 N helicopters with newer Sikorski S92s, has already been named the preferred bidder.
It is understood the contract includes search-and-rescue bases in England at Lee-on-Solent and Portland.
Mr Carmichael, accompanied by Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross Lib Dem MP John Thurso, said after the meeting he welcomed Capt Bligh's assurance because it would secure the "professionalism and expertise" of existing staff.
He said: "I hope that this undertaking from the MCA will alleviate some of the very reasonable and understandable concerns that have been expressed about the implications of any change."
Na h-Eileanan an lar SNP MP Angus MacNeil called for a statement on the future of the search-and-rescue service in the Commons and later secured a pledge from the MCA that the undertaking would also apply to staff at Stornoway. He said later: "This is very welcome."
"The MCA is of the view that although this has not been undertaken there is sufficient evidence from the use of these helicopters in Canada and Norway to make a full scale assessment unnecessary.
I thought the S92 was proving to be a bit problematic in Norway and was having major problems? Can anyone confirm deny/this?
JOBS PROMISE FOR HELICOPTER RESCUE CREWS
09:00 - 09 December 2005
Coastguard search-and-rescue helicopter crews at Sumburgh and Stornoway were last night promised they will keep their jobs when a new company takes over running the service.
The pledge to keep on staff was given yesterday by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency's chief captain, Stephen Bligh, at a meeting in the Commons with Orkney and Shetland Lib Dem MP Alistair Carmichael.
An announcement that CHC (Scotia) is to take over the role from Bristow Helicopters for the next five years is expected on Tuesday.
CHC, which plans to replace Bristow's ageing Sikorski 61 N helicopters with newer Sikorski S92s, has already been named the preferred bidder.
It is understood the contract includes search-and-rescue bases in England at Lee-on-Solent and Portland.
Mr Carmichael, accompanied by Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross Lib Dem MP John Thurso, said after the meeting he welcomed Capt Bligh's assurance because it would secure the "professionalism and expertise" of existing staff.
He said: "I hope that this undertaking from the MCA will alleviate some of the very reasonable and understandable concerns that have been expressed about the implications of any change."
Na h-Eileanan an lar SNP MP Angus MacNeil called for a statement on the future of the search-and-rescue service in the Commons and later secured a pledge from the MCA that the undertaking would also apply to staff at Stornoway. He said later: "This is very welcome."
"The MCA is of the view that although this has not been undertaken there is sufficient evidence from the use of these helicopters in Canada and Norway to make a full scale assessment unnecessary.
I thought the S92 was proving to be a bit problematic in Norway and was having major problems? Can anyone confirm deny/this?
Whoa guys,
The current crop of BHL Mandarins are merely trying to copy Big Al's axe job on the Chinook. He was successful.....why can't they be just as capable in the current business climate?
The current crop of BHL Mandarins are merely trying to copy Big Al's axe job on the Chinook. He was successful.....why can't they be just as capable in the current business climate?
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASless,
There are concerns with the S92 and I've heard of problems in Norway too. Bearing in mind that this is aircraft going to be used in SAR then why can't these issues be discussed. If anything it may prove that the S92 is all that the glossy Sikorsky brouchure suggests!!
If it is a BHL 'axe job' like you imply then a discussion on here may well prove you right! What do current S92 drivers think of the aircraft?
Actually I think the S92 may not be as problematic as the AB139 which is to be used on the south coast this seems to have major problems with performance.
And I think the oil companies stopped using the Chinook when it fell out of the sky from 3000 ft. You're not seriously suggesting that the old man had something to do with that are you?
There are concerns with the S92 and I've heard of problems in Norway too. Bearing in mind that this is aircraft going to be used in SAR then why can't these issues be discussed. If anything it may prove that the S92 is all that the glossy Sikorsky brouchure suggests!!
If it is a BHL 'axe job' like you imply then a discussion on here may well prove you right! What do current S92 drivers think of the aircraft?
Actually I think the S92 may not be as problematic as the AB139 which is to be used on the south coast this seems to have major problems with performance.
And I think the oil companies stopped using the Chinook when it fell out of the sky from 3000 ft. You're not seriously suggesting that the old man had something to do with that are you?