UK Coastguard SAR - Bristow out??
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Crab and Crashondeck.
Please stop the bitching, girls. As of Friday evening, we are back to using the winch as normal.
Just a bad batch and all suspect ones have been recalled.
Crash, I think that the SARF took exactly the right action and as a result the sit has been resolved with no further incidences.
Please stop the bitching, girls. As of Friday evening, we are back to using the winch as normal.
Just a bad batch and all suspect ones have been recalled.Crash, I think that the SARF took exactly the right action and as a result the sit has been resolved with no further incidences.
Tanewha - thanks for the update.
Crash - are you saying that if the CG had such a problem they would hush it up? As Tanewha said it was a technical problem that was encountered unexpectedly and dealt with correctly. We do carry a second winch, it is electrically operated and rather slow and has never actually been required on a SAROP. We would love to have twin hoists but as others are so fond of telling me, it all comes down to money and a need to justify the expense.
Decks - you have rather underlined my point - if you are the person sitting on a mountain with a broken leg, you probably won't die if you have to wait until morning or have to be carried off the hill by MRT. But if it was you and there was a helicopter available you would most likely want to be rescued pdq. There are countless numbers of people who have been rescued from the mountains in UK who would not have survived if they had not been rescued by SAR helicopters - that's why we do it.
There seems to be a subtle agreement that the military SAR does provide a greater capability because of equipment and training levels - but at a perceived cost since no-one can accurately compare the cost of civvy and military SAR. To make that comparison meaningful you would have to either reduce our training and manning levels to that of the MCA (and accept a reduction in capability) or increase the MCA up to the military levels. Then and only then can you get an accurate comparison, anything else is wishful thinking and missing the old 'bang for your buck' or capability for cost element.
Ask all those who do get rescued what colour the helicopter is and they won't care, just as long as someone comes to get them and doesn't say 'sorry but our employer doesn't pay enough for us to do that job, ring again in the morning.'
3Dcam - I have looked at the 139 threads and there isn't much hard info there - I assume it will be used for short range single or double lift jobs that are bread an butter for S coast flights during the summer months so payload won't be an issue, good single engine performance will be a godsend.
Arctic Warrior - there you go again with your incisive debating skills
Crash - are you saying that if the CG had such a problem they would hush it up? As Tanewha said it was a technical problem that was encountered unexpectedly and dealt with correctly. We do carry a second winch, it is electrically operated and rather slow and has never actually been required on a SAROP. We would love to have twin hoists but as others are so fond of telling me, it all comes down to money and a need to justify the expense.
Decks - you have rather underlined my point - if you are the person sitting on a mountain with a broken leg, you probably won't die if you have to wait until morning or have to be carried off the hill by MRT. But if it was you and there was a helicopter available you would most likely want to be rescued pdq. There are countless numbers of people who have been rescued from the mountains in UK who would not have survived if they had not been rescued by SAR helicopters - that's why we do it.
There seems to be a subtle agreement that the military SAR does provide a greater capability because of equipment and training levels - but at a perceived cost since no-one can accurately compare the cost of civvy and military SAR. To make that comparison meaningful you would have to either reduce our training and manning levels to that of the MCA (and accept a reduction in capability) or increase the MCA up to the military levels. Then and only then can you get an accurate comparison, anything else is wishful thinking and missing the old 'bang for your buck' or capability for cost element.
Ask all those who do get rescued what colour the helicopter is and they won't care, just as long as someone comes to get them and doesn't say 'sorry but our employer doesn't pay enough for us to do that job, ring again in the morning.'
3Dcam - I have looked at the 139 threads and there isn't much hard info there - I assume it will be used for short range single or double lift jobs that are bread an butter for S coast flights during the summer months so payload won't be an issue, good single engine performance will be a godsend.
Arctic Warrior - there you go again with your incisive debating skills
Crab.
With ref. to your comment on the 139. That is exactly my point. No hard info! If it is doing so well in service, then how come no one who is strapping it to their backsides has anything to say about it, good or bad? CHC have just put it into CAT service in Holland and even they are being a bit quiet about it. Yes, I am cynical but more than willing to accept hard facts and information if it is to the benefit of all!
Early on with this debate there were pages of stuff about the S92, some useful, some otherwise but at least there was something!
With ref. to your comment on the 139. That is exactly my point. No hard info! If it is doing so well in service, then how come no one who is strapping it to their backsides has anything to say about it, good or bad? CHC have just put it into CAT service in Holland and even they are being a bit quiet about it. Yes, I am cynical but more than willing to accept hard facts and information if it is to the benefit of all!
Early on with this debate there were pages of stuff about the S92, some useful, some otherwise but at least there was something!
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Tanewha, I wasn't bitching, merely highlighting that such a thing might cause bad press.
Crab,
I am absolutely not suggesting that the MCA would hush such a thing up.
Crab,
I am absolutely not suggesting that the MCA would hush such a thing up.
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Crab,
I am surprised you still defend the MOD's involvement in this process, you should be deeply afraid! After all it was the same organisation that wasted millions (enough to fund this contract several times over) on the Chinook Mk3, it is the same organisation that is responsible for Nimrod, Apache, Eurofighter, Merlin and all those other well run and value for money projects - NOT.
As you say there is not much information on the A139 - so which "experts" in the MOD assessed it and found it suitable for SAR? The rumours beginning to circulate point to the A139 being worse than the glossy sales brochures and even if it met that performance it would still struggle to do what the S61 does now. If improved capability was the driving force behind this contract change then why didn't the MOD wants S92's on the S Coast?
Finally, I am sorry if I assigned the wrong initials to Crabette. But where is Crabette with her inside knowledge, she has gone very quiet leaving only you to defend the indefensible!
DtD
I am surprised you still defend the MOD's involvement in this process, you should be deeply afraid! After all it was the same organisation that wasted millions (enough to fund this contract several times over) on the Chinook Mk3, it is the same organisation that is responsible for Nimrod, Apache, Eurofighter, Merlin and all those other well run and value for money projects - NOT.
As you say there is not much information on the A139 - so which "experts" in the MOD assessed it and found it suitable for SAR? The rumours beginning to circulate point to the A139 being worse than the glossy sales brochures and even if it met that performance it would still struggle to do what the S61 does now. If improved capability was the driving force behind this contract change then why didn't the MOD wants S92's on the S Coast?
Finally, I am sorry if I assigned the wrong initials to Crabette. But where is Crabette with her inside knowledge, she has gone very quiet leaving only you to defend the indefensible!
DtD
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UK Coastgaurd SAR- Bristow out
CHC may have won the contract with new aircraft. However the admin side of it is now starting to raise its head. The guys in Shetland that live in company accomodation (part of T's & C's/incentive to move up there) have recently been sent a letter by Bristows to say that they will be keeping the houses for the possibility of the Scatsca operation moving to Sumburgh. So basically the faithful crews who may move to CHC will probably have to move out. The question is what are CHC doing about thre housing problem that appears to rearing it's ugly head?. Oh and it's only 14 months to the start of the contract.
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Are you talking to them?
Or are you one of the many who wont say 'boo to a goose' because of some misplaced fear of 'sticking your head above the parapit'?
In my experience CHC managers will answer questions put to them as fully as they are able, unlike many Bristow managers who talk in tongues, seemingly for no good reason other than their own amusement. There are exceptions in both companies, obviously.
CHC probably can't answer questions about housing just now because they have no idea what they are going to do about it. I can't see Bristow holding on to houses they don't need in the immediate future - that's called medium/long term planning and neither company do that, it's a sin.
In my experience CHC managers will answer questions put to them as fully as they are able, unlike many Bristow managers who talk in tongues, seemingly for no good reason other than their own amusement. There are exceptions in both companies, obviously.
CHC probably can't answer questions about housing just now because they have no idea what they are going to do about it. I can't see Bristow holding on to houses they don't need in the immediate future - that's called medium/long term planning and neither company do that, it's a sin.
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I can't see Bristow holding on to houses they don't need in the immediate future - that's called medium/long term planning and neither company do that, it's a sin.
Incidentally 150 questions have been submitted to CHC by the CG UK SAR units about the transition and the 3 month timescale to introduce a new untested type to SAR. So we'll see whether your experience with CHC managers hangs true.
Some of us have been talking to CHC, and listening as well come to that! A lot are still not convinced about the company, CHC, or the the aircraft, the AW139 mainly, about which nothing very much is being said, good or bad??
The Southern bases have around two years to make up their minds about "going across" so CHC had better get it right up North or the people who are still unsure, and there are more than a few, will not be going. Better the devil you know at the end of the day.
The meeting next monday should be very interesting?
The Southern bases have around two years to make up their minds about "going across" so CHC had better get it right up North or the people who are still unsure, and there are more than a few, will not be going. Better the devil you know at the end of the day.
The meeting next monday should be very interesting?
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3D CAM
How many pilots and crewmen based in Portland and Lee would actually want to up sticks and move to 'good old Aberdeen'? As for crewmen, what would they do in Aberdeen? As far as I know, there are no jobs for crewmen there. Pilot wise, perhaps ten or so could be assimilated into the Aberdeen system, but not many more. So where would the rest go?
Anyway, you SAR guys always give the impression that you 'love' the job so much, that you wouldn't do anything to disrupt the service. During the recent pay review at Bristows, SAR pilots and crewmen supported the union stance, BUT would not take part in any form of industrial action. Very commendable!
So just how many of the Bristow SAR crews would decide to stay with Bristow and forego the transfer to CHC, where they could continue doing what they do best?
And they are the best!!!
bondu
How many pilots and crewmen based in Portland and Lee would actually want to up sticks and move to 'good old Aberdeen'? As for crewmen, what would they do in Aberdeen? As far as I know, there are no jobs for crewmen there. Pilot wise, perhaps ten or so could be assimilated into the Aberdeen system, but not many more. So where would the rest go?
Anyway, you SAR guys always give the impression that you 'love' the job so much, that you wouldn't do anything to disrupt the service. During the recent pay review at Bristows, SAR pilots and crewmen supported the union stance, BUT would not take part in any form of industrial action. Very commendable!
So just how many of the Bristow SAR crews would decide to stay with Bristow and forego the transfer to CHC, where they could continue doing what they do best?
And they are the best!!!
bondu
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How is that
Why do you say that sox6? Looking at the figures, CHC have consistently led the way on pay over the last few years. Its always the CHC union that push the pay up first, other companies' unions following behind. Why are skilled professionals 'perfect material to be screwed by the hummingbird'?
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sox6
You certainly seem to have a thing about CHC. At the moment CHC-Scotia is the best company to work for in Aberdeen. Best pay and best roster. Even Bond has had to increase its pay offers and promise to match Scotia's roster and they are usually the worst payers and demand the most out of you in Aberdeen.
If I was to recommend which company to join it would be CHC-Scotia as with its strong BALPA membership and a hard working CC we always get the deals that the other companies then have to match
332M
You certainly seem to have a thing about CHC. At the moment CHC-Scotia is the best company to work for in Aberdeen. Best pay and best roster. Even Bond has had to increase its pay offers and promise to match Scotia's roster and they are usually the worst payers and demand the most out of you in Aberdeen.
If I was to recommend which company to join it would be CHC-Scotia as with its strong BALPA membership and a hard working CC we always get the deals that the other companies then have to match
332M
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four months left
So has anyone the latest news on that SAR contract in Sumburgh and Stornoway. Is everything working out fine? Have they recruited enough qualified pilots? What is the money like? What about the company accomodation? What time/shift roster?
Any information???
Any information???
Three quick points in answer to recent postings...
AW139 has flown with 360 degree radar and dual winch.First aircraft in process of being deliveered to Japanese Coastguard so plenty of time to work out glitches before Lee and Portland machines come on board.
CHC has received (indirectly )planning permission to build new accomodation at Sumburgh.
MCA is under the impression that CHC is leasing S61Ns from Bristow pending completion of S92/AW139 deliveries and transition training.News to me that CHC converting their own aircraft ,bearing in mind lead times on sensors and autohover.They will need two to replace Bristow at Lee/Portland through into 2008,one at Sumburgh until beginning of 2008 and another at Stornoway until October....plus backup...have they got that many ?????
AW139 has flown with 360 degree radar and dual winch.First aircraft in process of being deliveered to Japanese Coastguard so plenty of time to work out glitches before Lee and Portland machines come on board.
CHC has received (indirectly )planning permission to build new accomodation at Sumburgh.
MCA is under the impression that CHC is leasing S61Ns from Bristow pending completion of S92/AW139 deliveries and transition training.News to me that CHC converting their own aircraft ,bearing in mind lead times on sensors and autohover.They will need two to replace Bristow at Lee/Portland through into 2008,one at Sumburgh until beginning of 2008 and another at Stornoway until October....plus backup...have they got that many ?????