B206 or R44?
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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R44 vs Bell JetRanger
Trying to get some information on how they stack up. I've got a few thousand hours in the TH-57 JetRanger but hopefully some of y'all with experience in both can tell me how they stack up. I know the Bell has a max gross of 3200 lbs and the R-44 tops out at 2400 lbs - any more comments on payload, range, speed?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
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For me it would only be the 206, it feels much easier, and with its turbine thingy rather than the old recip donkey, it sounds right as well,, but then thats me and my thoughts!
Peter R-B
Peter R-B
Horses for courses.
For charter work, carrying two couples is the norm. In a 44, one of them stays behind, or, more likely, you don't get the job.
No boot is the biggest reason not to buy a 44.
For charter work, carrying two couples is the norm. In a 44, one of them stays behind, or, more likely, you don't get the job.
No boot is the biggest reason not to buy a 44.
Join Date: May 2001
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r44,
3 pax, no bags, not under the seats if you are sensible.
bell 206,
4 pax, 4 sets of golf clubs in the boot. very sensible.
warren buffet. 100/110 kts max with a load generally although some seem to get along a bit quicker.
the r44 has all the good flight characterisics, especially with the hydraulics. the best machine in auto and the 540 sounds great.
no payload stuffs it.
3 pax, no bags, not under the seats if you are sensible.
bell 206,
4 pax, 4 sets of golf clubs in the boot. very sensible.
warren buffet. 100/110 kts max with a load generally although some seem to get along a bit quicker.
the r44 has all the good flight characterisics, especially with the hydraulics. the best machine in auto and the 540 sounds great.
no payload stuffs it.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In my skin, strapped to my Helo...
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Being current on both types, (still prefer the 206) I can cruise the 44 Raven II at a comfortable 115kt. Where I am operating, I have had full fuel and pax in the 44 with some power to spare. The extra HP on the Raven II comes in REALLY handy.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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206 operating cost
hi all
can any owner 206 operators tell me the hourly cost of a 206 111 based on approx 175 hours per year usage.
if possible has anyone also looked at the operating cost of
a r44 raven 2 based on its life span taking into consideration
its overhaul at end of life.
Some pilots will tell you are better buying a old jet ranger and paying for componants as they come up,the age of the machine will insure you are at its lowest cost when purchasing the machine insuring you do not loose as much when selling it versus r44 for half what you paid for a new one.
hopfully some one has operated both to settle the mind on the matter.
regards
choppersquad
can any owner 206 operators tell me the hourly cost of a 206 111 based on approx 175 hours per year usage.
if possible has anyone also looked at the operating cost of
a r44 raven 2 based on its life span taking into consideration
its overhaul at end of life.
Some pilots will tell you are better buying a old jet ranger and paying for componants as they come up,the age of the machine will insure you are at its lowest cost when purchasing the machine insuring you do not loose as much when selling it versus r44 for half what you paid for a new one.
hopfully some one has operated both to settle the mind on the matter.
regards
choppersquad
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If your willing to pay for an excellent model that will answer your question and more both Conklin de Decker (includes helicopter cost database) and SLM (in my opinion, has a better model) offer solutions. Both consider residual value.
Conklin is at: http://www.conklindd.com/cgi-bin/sof...87d+1107062294
SLM is at: http://www.aircraftcostanalysis.com/
I have used both but have not stake in either so I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules.
Conklin is at: http://www.conklindd.com/cgi-bin/sof...87d+1107062294
SLM is at: http://www.aircraftcostanalysis.com/
I have used both but have not stake in either so I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules.
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thanks cross-eyed i will look into this,but there must
be a 206 owner on the forum who can give me
a idea .as we all know when turbines go wrong
it hurts the pocket.some one must have gone from a
turbine to a piston machine due to operating costs
who can settle this dicussion.
regards
cs
be a 206 owner on the forum who can give me
a idea .as we all know when turbines go wrong
it hurts the pocket.some one must have gone from a
turbine to a piston machine due to operating costs
who can settle this dicussion.
regards
cs
I operate B206B and I find that the Bell published Direct operating cost is pretty accurate @ $200.- pr/hr.
The DOC does not include insurance, hangar, crew compensation & financing.
But the R44 is probably cheaper although I have not much experience with the R44 (only R22!) but comparing these two is comparing apples and oranges, they´re not really in the same class if you want to operate them commercially in my opinion.
Its like people often compare the B206B with the AS-350B2 which really competes with the B407.
I guess the B206B should be compared to EC120 really! and I know that the JetRanger will be cheaper and more reliable than the EC120 although the JetRanger will make more noise.
But for a cheap to run personal helicopter I´m sure the R-44 is fine.
The DOC does not include insurance, hangar, crew compensation & financing.
But the R44 is probably cheaper although I have not much experience with the R44 (only R22!) but comparing these two is comparing apples and oranges, they´re not really in the same class if you want to operate them commercially in my opinion.
Its like people often compare the B206B with the AS-350B2 which really competes with the B407.
I guess the B206B should be compared to EC120 really! and I know that the JetRanger will be cheaper and more reliable than the EC120 although the JetRanger will make more noise.
But for a cheap to run personal helicopter I´m sure the R-44 is fine.
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I know about 10 years ago, it was approx 80,000 pounds per year to run a 206 privately, meaning roughly 250 hours a year - if it was 60,000 one year, it would be 100,000 the next, so the figures were quite accurate.
We operate here on around 200 per hour, but our machines do 600 hours per year on commercial basis.
Phil
We operate here on around 200 per hour, but our machines do 600 hours per year on commercial basis.
Phil
Better red than ...
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I did the comparison a while ago for by business plan, so I'll post it when I can find in in the next day or so, - 206 -v- R44 (NB, the R44 won)
h-r
h-r
If you want to keep your machine for your own use and don't need the 5th seat, I'd say the R44 R1 is the machine for you. I'd recommend that you ignore anyone's view on DOC on a 206: the reality is so tied to component times and - frankly - luck, that what the papers say and what you find in reality will be different.
I bought a 206, primarily as I wanted to lease it back to a commercial operator to contribute to operating costs (and keep the VAT-man off my back!). But frankly it's cost me a fortune in the last three years with unexpected repairs and components due. But I've had a good run for the last few year (touch wood), but with a turbine wheel due in a few months, who knows what horrors will come to light when they take it out!
But no doubt, the R44 will depreciate, where the 206 will hold its value - but be warned that the value of a 206 is more closely asscociated with component time than age.
Personally, I love the 206 to fly - it is better than the R44, but whether it's worth the difference is open to debate.
I bought a 206, primarily as I wanted to lease it back to a commercial operator to contribute to operating costs (and keep the VAT-man off my back!). But frankly it's cost me a fortune in the last three years with unexpected repairs and components due. But I've had a good run for the last few year (touch wood), but with a turbine wheel due in a few months, who knows what horrors will come to light when they take it out!
But no doubt, the R44 will depreciate, where the 206 will hold its value - but be warned that the value of a 206 is more closely asscociated with component time than age.
Personally, I love the 206 to fly - it is better than the R44, but whether it's worth the difference is open to debate.
I guess I have been lucky with the B206 I' ve flown or operated, but unscheduled maintenance has been pretty much non-existent, except for the *
Janitrol heater, although right now, "Knock on wood" it works fine.
However "Choppersquad" you asked for operating cost based on 175 hr/yr. Those cost depend alot on the insurance, hangar cost, crew etc.. just figure around 200 USD pr/hr, or if you are in the UK on 200 Sterling, to be on the safe side and if you have unscheduled maintenance its just your bad luck, its really impossible to estimate the unscheduled maintenance required!
You dont really say if the aircraft is for commercial use or private? If for private then you cant go wrong with a Robinson, but commercially then:
Janitrol heater, although right now, "Knock on wood" it works fine.However "Choppersquad" you asked for operating cost based on 175 hr/yr. Those cost depend alot on the insurance, hangar cost, crew etc.. just figure around 200 USD pr/hr, or if you are in the UK on 200 Sterling, to be on the safe side and if you have unscheduled maintenance its just your bad luck, its really impossible to estimate the unscheduled maintenance required!
You dont really say if the aircraft is for commercial use or private? If for private then you cant go wrong with a Robinson, but commercially then:
