Chinese Astar?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 385
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From: 1 deg south, avoiding Malaria P Falciparium
Chinese Astar?
Who says the Chinese dont believe in patent law. China new self designed helicopter
Looks like an Astar, blades Spin like an Astar, must be an Astar...
I thought I had read somewhere Eurocopter had licensed the Chinese to build Astars in China... I guess they didnt bother to license them..
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2238/[email protected]
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z11.asp
rb
Looks like an Astar, blades Spin like an Astar, must be an Astar...
I thought I had read somewhere Eurocopter had licensed the Chinese to build Astars in China... I guess they didnt bother to license them..
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2238/[email protected]
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z11.asp
rb
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 179
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From: Asia
Reverse Engineering?
I believe that it was in 1989 that Aerospatiale, as it was then, sold an AS 350B1 to a Chinese operator. The aircraft ‘disappeared’ in 1990/1991 and was reported by the operator to be in a very remote part of the country.
When finally the factory managed to get a technical team into inspect it, on a ‘product support visit’, I understand that the report back was that the helicopter showed all the signs of having been completely dismantled and put back together again.
The Z-11 would appear to be further evidence of a bit of ‘reverse engineering’.
When finally the factory managed to get a technical team into inspect it, on a ‘product support visit’, I understand that the report back was that the helicopter showed all the signs of having been completely dismantled and put back together again.
The Z-11 would appear to be further evidence of a bit of ‘reverse engineering’.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 146
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From: Norwich, CT USA
Just theft! Its easy that way rather than buy the rights to build the aircraft in this case an A-Star. Or software or what have you. I guess they figuire that they are owed. One of the things about stealing other peoples property, be it intellectual or physical things like a helicopter, proves you really can't be trusted for much of anything. Gee how hard would it have been to go to Eurocopter and say hey we like the AS-350b, we would like to make them for our market, how about selling us a license to do so. If not would you consider run a line of 350B's for us at X per unit? Nope better to be just a thief.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,079
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From: Abu Dhabi
f not would you consider run a line of 350B's for us at X per unit? Nope better to be just a thief.
Another example:
in this case it says:
"The Zhi-9 (Z-9) multirole army support helicopter, developed by the Harbin Aircraft Manufacturing Company (HAMC), is the licensed Chinese copy of the French Eurocopter AS 365N Dauphin II."
But for this one...
"The helicopter is a reverse-engineering of the French SA 321Ja Super Frelon utility helicopter, which is also in service with the PLA Navy in a small number. The Z-8 is also produced in army transport variant Z-8A and utility variant Z-8F."
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,187
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From: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
In spite of all this 'theft' and 'reverse engineering' there are few signs that Eurocopter have thrown their teddies out of the pram.
There are plenty of stories of continued cooperation.... prime example being the EC120... somewhere on the hem you will find 'Made in China' ....
I guess that they have taken the pragmatic approach. Talk nicely to 50% of the World's population [for that is what they are near enough] and the crumbs that fall from the table will feed you well!
I expect we now must wait for reverse engineered A109s and Explorer's? A-W and MD noticed the crumbs too I guess!
There are plenty of stories of continued cooperation.... prime example being the EC120... somewhere on the hem you will find 'Made in China' ....
I guess that they have taken the pragmatic approach. Talk nicely to 50% of the World's population [for that is what they are near enough] and the crumbs that fall from the table will feed you well!
I expect we now must wait for reverse engineered A109s and Explorer's? A-W and MD noticed the crumbs too I guess!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 814
Likes: 2
From: the hills of halton
Let's not forget that most of Westland's early output was based on Igors designs ( used with permission I guess is the big difference ). I would be interested to see how they reverse engineered the Starflex and main rotor , can be tedious unlaminating all them layers of fiberglass 
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,051
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From: CA
One advantage of this is I percieve is that if we had to go head to head with these aircraft in combat, I/we would know the absolute limits of their flight characteristics and be able to exploit them.
The Astar has the servo transperency issues which could be isolated and the fenestron issues are well know at altitude.
Good news to know ahead of time...
Right?
The Astar has the servo transperency issues which could be isolated and the fenestron issues are well know at altitude.
Good news to know ahead of time...
Right?
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 1
From: UK
Steve: head to head with 1 million Astars?????????????????
What are you on?
There will only be one outcome going head to head with the Chinese - Armagedon.
Don't mess with the Chinese - if they want something, the West will fall over themselves to give it to them. And if that means credibility in stealing, then so be it.
The Chinese are the future for MOST companies. I think you'll find this is the tip of the iceberg.
Wait till after the Olympic games in 2008 then you'll see what they are like
What are you on?
There will only be one outcome going head to head with the Chinese - Armagedon.
Don't mess with the Chinese - if they want something, the West will fall over themselves to give it to them. And if that means credibility in stealing, then so be it.
The Chinese are the future for MOST companies. I think you'll find this is the tip of the iceberg.
Wait till after the Olympic games in 2008 then you'll see what they are like
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Who says the Chinese don't believe in patent law.
____________________________________
Thomas coupling is correct.
Today's cover page from Canada's leading national newspaper;
18 full pages are devoted to the subject.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 385
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From: 1 deg south, avoiding Malaria P Falciparium
Horrah its like casting a dry fly in to that perfectly still pond and watching a hugh trout rise around here.
Dave I totally agree with you. They will get what they want. I spent 2 months riding the trains around western China last winter. It is amazing, what they have done. For example, we were visiting a rural mtn village. Ten years ago my friend, had to take a boat 2 days up the river from Chongqing, then the bus and the motor cycle to the village. Now there is a 4 lane highway and it takes 6 hours. While I was there the high speed rail opened 1.45 hours.....
I came to this assumption: The Chinese already own the world, they just havent told us yet.
RB
Dave I totally agree with you. They will get what they want. I spent 2 months riding the trains around western China last winter. It is amazing, what they have done. For example, we were visiting a rural mtn village. Ten years ago my friend, had to take a boat 2 days up the river from Chongqing, then the bus and the motor cycle to the village. Now there is a 4 lane highway and it takes 6 hours. While I was there the high speed rail opened 1.45 hours.....
I came to this assumption: The Chinese already own the world, they just havent told us yet.
RB
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here you go then there's still some time before the Olympics are over when they then resume their ruthless savage campaign for world dominance and control as they have always done throughout history.
http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/ccol/content.htm
China really is not as bad as the paranoid ignorant western media would have you believe.
Many areas are quite primitive and lacking facitlities by western standards but the people generally are more tolerant friendly and polite and
that combined with some breathtakingly beautiful scenery makes flying a helicopter over there a pleasurable unique and priviledged experience.
If you ever have the opportunity to work there do so I think you may be pleasantly surprised and while you're there don't pass up on the opportunity to try some of the local cuisine]
from a fellow comrade pilot
http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/ccol/content.htm
China really is not as bad as the paranoid ignorant western media would have you believe.
Many areas are quite primitive and lacking facitlities by western standards but the people generally are more tolerant friendly and polite and
that combined with some breathtakingly beautiful scenery makes flying a helicopter over there a pleasurable unique and priviledged experience.
If you ever have the opportunity to work there do so I think you may be pleasantly surprised and while you're there don't pass up on the opportunity to try some of the local cuisine]
from a fellow comrade pilot
Last edited by ayaarr; 30th October 2005 at 10:55.
