Wires - strikes, cutters and detectors
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Wire strike protection kits and life vests. Never used either one for its name implied purpose but, given the experience of others I have always been glad they were there.
"Experience is not always the best teacher, it is often costly and painful"
"Experience is not always the best teacher, it is often costly and painful"
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A German company called Dornier had info at Heli Expo about a system called Hellas which is used by the German Border Guard on their machines and it actually detects wires and warns you where they are and how far ahead.
Never got a chance to have a look at it because I was busy but did get there brochure. Will post some more on this topic when I unpack and have the brochure at hand.
Never got a chance to have a look at it because I was busy but did get there brochure. Will post some more on this topic when I unpack and have the brochure at hand.
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I believe Weight and Balance has brought up a very good point about wire cutter kits. The wire size is probably one of the two most important factors. The other factor is the make-up of the conductor. Most high voltage conductors are made of reinforced wire. They have an aluminum outer jacket for conducting the current and an inner sleeve of high tensile strength steel to carry the weight of the conductor. This inner sleeve could be as much as an one-inch in diameter, I don’t think a wire cutter kit is going to cut that. I believe the wire cutter kits are designed to cut copper telephone and low voltage electric line. Just a thought.
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Yeah but according to all the salesmen at Heli Expo it will cut through anything 
I watched it cut time and time again a piece of wire strung between two assemblies at the show but as anyone knows this is under controlled conditions, and out in the real world it is a hell of a lot different.
I watched it cut time and time again a piece of wire strung between two assemblies at the show but as anyone knows this is under controlled conditions, and out in the real world it is a hell of a lot different.
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Due to commercial pressures etc, people are going to be killed flying into wires even after being lectured constantly on the subject.
It's one thing to say "I won't ever do that" but what if one day you are flying to take a couple of VIP's home and the weather closes in. etc etc.
With the coming summer and (hopefully) increased amount of flying out there, we can all fly safe and not buckle to peer/commercial pressure "to get the job done"!
Safe Flying.
It's one thing to say "I won't ever do that" but what if one day you are flying to take a couple of VIP's home and the weather closes in. etc etc.
With the coming summer and (hopefully) increased amount of flying out there, we can all fly safe and not buckle to peer/commercial pressure "to get the job done"!
Safe Flying.
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Wires are tricky beasts, and those seen on the way into a site can very often not be seen on the way out, especially against clear blue skies (not so much in bad weather as is commonly thought). People who fly around them regularly, like myself, don't actually look for wires, but the clues to their existence first. I would be careful about blaming pilots for wire strikes without knowing the whole circumstances of the flight.
However, the question of customer pressure has been something I have had to cope with all of my career, on both sides of the Atlantic - and you should see the tricks they try to pull over here - they know the flight manual very well, and your transient limits!
Pilots, and helicopter ones in particular, are in the curious position of being told they are in charge (see Annex 2 of the Chicago Convention), yet also being influenced largely by the uneducated, including customers and management. Nobody tells you that you must develop certain qualities on top of all those exams, one being the ability to say no. I was lucky to be saying no to Generals when I was but a mere corporal, in another life, but other people didn't and I hope I have the breadth of mind to realise that they don't have that experience and the world is not as black and white as some people in their ivory towers seem to realise.
It's not just pilots that should be on PDM/CRM courses, it's also management and customers, and *then* we might start reducing the accident rate! Funny how, if a fork lift driver says he can't take more than 8 barrels, people believe him, yet they always turn up with those extra couple of hundred pounds with a helicopter! Is there a reason why we seem to have no credibility and nobody listens? It's very frustrating.
The only thing I would like to say to fellow pilots faced with pressure is to point out that you are not just saying NO for yourself, but for the next guy, because that customer will have expectations based on the service *you* provide, or the weather you fly in.
Phil
However, the question of customer pressure has been something I have had to cope with all of my career, on both sides of the Atlantic - and you should see the tricks they try to pull over here - they know the flight manual very well, and your transient limits!
Pilots, and helicopter ones in particular, are in the curious position of being told they are in charge (see Annex 2 of the Chicago Convention), yet also being influenced largely by the uneducated, including customers and management. Nobody tells you that you must develop certain qualities on top of all those exams, one being the ability to say no. I was lucky to be saying no to Generals when I was but a mere corporal, in another life, but other people didn't and I hope I have the breadth of mind to realise that they don't have that experience and the world is not as black and white as some people in their ivory towers seem to realise.
It's not just pilots that should be on PDM/CRM courses, it's also management and customers, and *then* we might start reducing the accident rate! Funny how, if a fork lift driver says he can't take more than 8 barrels, people believe him, yet they always turn up with those extra couple of hundred pounds with a helicopter! Is there a reason why we seem to have no credibility and nobody listens? It's very frustrating.
The only thing I would like to say to fellow pilots faced with pressure is to point out that you are not just saying NO for yourself, but for the next guy, because that customer will have expectations based on the service *you* provide, or the weather you fly in.
Phil
Avoid imitations
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Commercial pressure comes from a number of directions.
For example, on arrival at the aircraft, the customer sees the vacant seat and wants to put a fat friend in it. He doesn't understand about IFR fuel reserves and MAUM so when he is told, sorry but no, he thinks the pilot is an idiot.
Or, having been advised light baggage only, turns up with the world's largest suitcase. When the pilot points out that it has taken two people to lift it into the aircraft and it is too heavy, the customer thinks the pilot is just being pedantic and awkward.
The customer turns up and wants to change the destination to the back lawn of a large private house in the middle of a city ("It's OK, my friend's father owns it and he says we can land there). Pilot points out that CAA permission is required and a Rule 5.1 (c) exemption letter is required for a landing in a congested area, the customer thinks the pilot is a pedantic, awkward idiot.
On being told the weather is too bad for even IFR flight, (cloud on the deck and freezing temperatures at low level) the customer points out that the aircraft has radar and can therefore land anywhere in any conditions. Besides, he has just phoned a friend at the destination (a small field in the middle of nowhere) who said the weather is fine. He doesn't understand the requirement for a weather diversion airfield so he thinks the pilot is a stupid, awkward, pedantic idiot.
The customer turns up 2 hours late so it's dark now. He can't understand why the pilot thinks it's so difficult to land in an unlit and unmarked field in the dark. After all, he's been there himself (admittedly by day and ok, it was a couple of years back, but he's sure he can show the pilot where it is.....).
And there's an awful lot more...
The most difficult thing about this job is knowing when to say "NO!". Those that should have, often end up wishing they did have
For example, on arrival at the aircraft, the customer sees the vacant seat and wants to put a fat friend in it. He doesn't understand about IFR fuel reserves and MAUM so when he is told, sorry but no, he thinks the pilot is an idiot.
Or, having been advised light baggage only, turns up with the world's largest suitcase. When the pilot points out that it has taken two people to lift it into the aircraft and it is too heavy, the customer thinks the pilot is just being pedantic and awkward.
The customer turns up and wants to change the destination to the back lawn of a large private house in the middle of a city ("It's OK, my friend's father owns it and he says we can land there). Pilot points out that CAA permission is required and a Rule 5.1 (c) exemption letter is required for a landing in a congested area, the customer thinks the pilot is a pedantic, awkward idiot.
On being told the weather is too bad for even IFR flight, (cloud on the deck and freezing temperatures at low level) the customer points out that the aircraft has radar and can therefore land anywhere in any conditions. Besides, he has just phoned a friend at the destination (a small field in the middle of nowhere) who said the weather is fine. He doesn't understand the requirement for a weather diversion airfield so he thinks the pilot is a stupid, awkward, pedantic idiot.
The customer turns up 2 hours late so it's dark now. He can't understand why the pilot thinks it's so difficult to land in an unlit and unmarked field in the dark. After all, he's been there himself (admittedly by day and ok, it was a couple of years back, but he's sure he can show the pilot where it is.....).
And there's an awful lot more...
The most difficult thing about this job is knowing when to say "NO!". Those that should have, often end up wishing they did have
Wires and Helicopters....
Simple fact of life as a helicopter pilot....you fly around in areas of wires....at heights that they exist in....and you will one day find yourself becoming a statistic. The blessed things can catch you faster than a suspicious wife....in an area you know like the back of your hand.
Think not....try flying around in an area where loggers use the Hi-line method of logging. They can string a wire faster than pilots downing the first free pint at opening time.
Ever see the alpine firewood haulling wires in Italy and other areas in the Alps.....mighty hard to see and thousands of feet above the ground.
Cable car wires....some of them run into some very high places.
Mobile balloon radars in the USA....used by the government to interdict the narcotics smugglers.....get a wee bit off course some very hazy day! The balloon is up there about 15,000 feet above cloud and there you are putzing along at a mere 3,000 with your head up and locked.
Let your guard down and partake of some of that much maligned nap of the earth flying or seeing just how close you can come to the green bits when you think no one is looking......without having done your route recce first before getting into the trees.
I guess we never have had an occasion to experience deteriorating weather....that is what I call wrongly guessing what the weather is going to be like when I get someplace....never happened to me...nope...not even once. (Yeah Right!)
Anyone of you out there that thinks it will always happen to the other guy....and that you are immune from eating a set of wires....keep your insurance paid up. Your next of kin will thank you for it.
I would like to see an honest poll of our members to see how many have ever undertaken a near-fatal closeup thread count of wires while flogging around in a helicopter.
I popped over a ridge near Homer, Alaska.....in the middle of absolutely no where.....at nought feet and max knots in a 500D....comfy as you would want.....to discover the only set of power lines in what must have had to be 300 nautical miles. I missed them by an unknown distance....had my eyes closed at the time (tensing for the impact...knowing I was dead!) and failing to cut the tail boom off after turning myself into a Soprano with the cyclic.....to come to the realization that complacency is very subtle in its onset. It sometimes leaves in a flash!
Simple fact of life as a helicopter pilot....you fly around in areas of wires....at heights that they exist in....and you will one day find yourself becoming a statistic. The blessed things can catch you faster than a suspicious wife....in an area you know like the back of your hand.
Think not....try flying around in an area where loggers use the Hi-line method of logging. They can string a wire faster than pilots downing the first free pint at opening time.
Ever see the alpine firewood haulling wires in Italy and other areas in the Alps.....mighty hard to see and thousands of feet above the ground.
Cable car wires....some of them run into some very high places.
Mobile balloon radars in the USA....used by the government to interdict the narcotics smugglers.....get a wee bit off course some very hazy day! The balloon is up there about 15,000 feet above cloud and there you are putzing along at a mere 3,000 with your head up and locked.
Let your guard down and partake of some of that much maligned nap of the earth flying or seeing just how close you can come to the green bits when you think no one is looking......without having done your route recce first before getting into the trees.
I guess we never have had an occasion to experience deteriorating weather....that is what I call wrongly guessing what the weather is going to be like when I get someplace....never happened to me...nope...not even once. (Yeah Right!)
Anyone of you out there that thinks it will always happen to the other guy....and that you are immune from eating a set of wires....keep your insurance paid up. Your next of kin will thank you for it.
I would like to see an honest poll of our members to see how many have ever undertaken a near-fatal closeup thread count of wires while flogging around in a helicopter.
I popped over a ridge near Homer, Alaska.....in the middle of absolutely no where.....at nought feet and max knots in a 500D....comfy as you would want.....to discover the only set of power lines in what must have had to be 300 nautical miles. I missed them by an unknown distance....had my eyes closed at the time (tensing for the impact...knowing I was dead!) and failing to cut the tail boom off after turning myself into a Soprano with the cyclic.....to come to the realization that complacency is very subtle in its onset. It sometimes leaves in a flash!
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Sasless,
Had mine (power line experience) awhile back . Made me leave my instructing/powerline job in the the flying motorcycle. My boss at the time had me flying powerlines in a r22. Not the smartest thing to be doing. was flying along wiht the lineman looking at insulators and the wind did a 180 and i started to settle. came about that close to eating it , was able to turn it into the wind away form the line, scared to death that the t/r was going to strike or get hung up. Never been so white in my life.
Then I went to reading gauges in a 61 yanking lumber. dont know which was safer. Guess it beats Nigeria, huh?
RB
Had mine (power line experience) awhile back . Made me leave my instructing/powerline job in the the flying motorcycle. My boss at the time had me flying powerlines in a r22. Not the smartest thing to be doing. was flying along wiht the lineman looking at insulators and the wind did a 180 and i started to settle. came about that close to eating it , was able to turn it into the wind away form the line, scared to death that the t/r was going to strike or get hung up. Never been so white in my life.
Then I went to reading gauges in a 61 yanking lumber. dont know which was safer. Guess it beats Nigeria, huh?
RB
That particular fright of a lifetime....wish it was the only one of that intensity....was in mid-September 1981.....at about the 5,000 hour level...three ATP's under my belt...two helicopter and one fixed wing....and a stint in Uncle Sam's vagabond air circus.
"Just a pilot"
Wire strikes, risk and aeromedical exposure
Anybody know an online source of flying stats that breaks down by type operation: number or hours/landings total fleet; aeromedical; aerial application?
Recent posting of wirestrike info in another forum has me wondering at relative risk of different specialties. Aerial application presents as having the highest risk, they operate where the wires are. Wondering how aeromedical shakes out beyond, the raw numbers.
If you've already done the work, that info appreciated also.
Recent posting of wirestrike info in another forum has me wondering at relative risk of different specialties. Aerial application presents as having the highest risk, they operate where the wires are. Wondering how aeromedical shakes out beyond, the raw numbers.
If you've already done the work, that info appreciated also.
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I have done quite a bit of this sort of number crunching over the years. Generally, the biggest problem is getting relevant stats on the amount of flying, however you want to define it (flying hours/numbers of movements etc.). The accidents/incidents are usually much better recorded and can be analysed from their recorded details. The UK CAA do split hours flown for offshore, but not much further than that.
The flight safety foundation (fsf) has yearly reports that will go a long way towards answering your questions. EMS still seems to be the risky place to be....from what I remember of the stats. Weather and wires are the leading causes of problems....oddly enough. That web site is flightsafety.org .
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Lucky escape at Loch Ness
BBC News report
Full report here
Helicopter in power lines scare
A television crew filming aerial shots of Loch Ness had a scare when their helicopter hit power lines. An Inverness-based helicopter hired by a private film crew snagged the lines near Fort Augustus on Friday at 1300 BST.
None of the three people aboard were hurt, but the helicopter was slightly damaged in the accident north of Kytra Locks on the Caledonian Canal.
A television crew filming aerial shots of Loch Ness had a scare when their helicopter hit power lines. An Inverness-based helicopter hired by a private film crew snagged the lines near Fort Augustus on Friday at 1300 BST.
None of the three people aboard were hurt, but the helicopter was slightly damaged in the accident north of Kytra Locks on the Caledonian Canal.
a bit concerned by the following comment:
Now, the fact that the helicopter did actually strike the power lines signals that they were not seen by the pilot. It doesn't sound like a "minor incident" to me. What if they had been a bit lower?
Don't think these comments do the company any favours. What does everyone think?
Jerry Francis, chief executive of the firm (PDG), said the accident had not been life-threatening.
He said: "Of course it could have been more serious. It can be any time you get into a helicopter or plane or car.
"Obviously any incident like this could be worse but fortunately this is just a minor incident and that is how we are treating it .
"The aircraft made an immediate landing. It wasn't a forced landing or anything like that.
"Nobody was hurt and there was little damage to the helicopter."
He said: "Of course it could have been more serious. It can be any time you get into a helicopter or plane or car.
"Obviously any incident like this could be worse but fortunately this is just a minor incident and that is how we are treating it .
"The aircraft made an immediate landing. It wasn't a forced landing or anything like that.
"Nobody was hurt and there was little damage to the helicopter."
Now, the fact that the helicopter did actually strike the power lines signals that they were not seen by the pilot. It doesn't sound like a "minor incident" to me. What if they had been a bit lower?
Don't think these comments do the company any favours. What does everyone think?
Oh...he probably saw the wires....at some point. They can be hard to see sometimes....the interesting fact in the US is that fixed wing aircraft hit more wires than do helicopters. I was a bit surprised to learn that....always thought we had the lion's share of them due to the nature of what we do with the helicopter.
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If they are the wires I suspect they are, then they are strung across the valley and have bright coloured balls on them to aid visibility. I think these highlighters were put in place because of a wire strike by a fixed-wing aircraft and other near misses!
I seem to remember that one of the Red Arrows hit these wires in the mid-80's when they were in transit up the Loch at low level en-route to either Kinloss or Lossiemouth.
However, the Hawk that hit the wires didn't hit the top ones but the bottom ones which were reportedly 70ft AGL!! The wires that were hit were also at the side of the valley, not in the middle. The engineer flying with him ejected and both of his legs were damaged as the cockpit glass did not disintegrate due to the high tension cable damaging the Miniature Detonation Cord preventing it from working properly! The pilot was able to continue flying the Hawk and landed it at Inverness Airport.
I seem to remember that one of the Red Arrows hit these wires in the mid-80's when they were in transit up the Loch at low level en-route to either Kinloss or Lossiemouth.
However, the Hawk that hit the wires didn't hit the top ones but the bottom ones which were reportedly 70ft AGL!! The wires that were hit were also at the side of the valley, not in the middle. The engineer flying with him ejected and both of his legs were damaged as the cockpit glass did not disintegrate due to the high tension cable damaging the Miniature Detonation Cord preventing it from working properly! The pilot was able to continue flying the Hawk and landed it at Inverness Airport.
Helicopter crash in Chamonix
According to the french media, a B3 from the company Mont-Blanc Helicopters crashed this morning (09h45) near Chamonix.
Two die in French Alps helicopter crash
CHAMONIX, France, Jan 14 (AFP) - The pilot of a French helicopter and one of his two passengers were killed Wednesday when the craft hit cable-car lines in the French Alps, ski resort officials said.
The cause of the accident, which occurred near the town of Chamonix, was not immediately known.
The officials said the helicopter was transporting two ski-slope safety officers when it hit the overhead cables of the Grands Montets cable-car system and crashed near one of the supporting pylons, at an altitude of 2,600 metres (8,600 feet).The third man, who was injured, was being cut from the wreckage.
© AFP
Bell4can
Two die in French Alps helicopter crash
CHAMONIX, France, Jan 14 (AFP) - The pilot of a French helicopter and one of his two passengers were killed Wednesday when the craft hit cable-car lines in the French Alps, ski resort officials said.
The cause of the accident, which occurred near the town of Chamonix, was not immediately known.
The officials said the helicopter was transporting two ski-slope safety officers when it hit the overhead cables of the Grands Montets cable-car system and crashed near one of the supporting pylons, at an altitude of 2,600 metres (8,600 feet).The third man, who was injured, was being cut from the wreckage.
© AFP
Bell4can
Very sad to hear this as it is only 2 years ago the same company lost another helo plus pilot plus 2 pax in Flaine when the rotors hit a ski lift cable.